Dogs bred in America - Page 1

I am starting a new thread to get away from the other schlock this quote was buried in. Uwe wrote "And this is what I would like to see more of. Breeders here in America that produce dogs that make it the Regionals and National level." (Uwe) Yes, me too. Correct me if I'm wrong, it seems many people automatically look overseas to find competition dogs. What would make people consider breeders here first? (ie, if you are someone who would automatically look outside the USA for a dog, what would need to change in order for you to look here first?) How can breeders place their pups better? Or make it more attractive for good handlers to get their breedings? I would also like to see more dogs titled HERE rather than sent overseas for titling (I think this is more of an issue in showlines). What would promote this change? I think this has the possibility of being a far more interesting and constructive topic than other ones of the past few days. So, moving right along.........opinions??

Ahhh .... a breath of fresh air :) Biggest thing is getting the breeders to place the pups in the right homes. I do understand that this is tough task when you do the math. 4000+ USA members add a couple thousand for the other organizations and then compare that with the Billion regular citizens in the United states. So there will always be more pet homes availble than competition homes. Breeders giving some comps to people earning titles or accomplishments is a good start. Another thing is breeders raising the picks from the litter and having them trained correct for National level then when the dog is 12 - 13 months you have dogs available for those handlers that don't want to start with a pup. This can be a challenge though. The last litter of pups that I sold that went into SchH homes they were given a contract that if they make the Nationals with one of my pups I would cover some of the expense. As well as rebates for titles earned. In the end if they call me on it, I will have reimbursed more than what they paid for the pup, but my Kennel name will be on the dog :)

I like your ideas better than the co-owns that it seems that many breeders offer. There are alot of perks for those who take the pup to its full potential, yet somehow seems fair to the breeder as well (if someone doesn't do justice to the pup's training and competition career, they have paid full asking price). I think it also shows a REALLY nice attitude of long term commitment and support that looks at the 'big picture' of the dog's development. That is VERY attractive to me and I believe would be for others as well. Also - are co-owns equally common in both showlines and working lines? Just curious.

One of the problems I see is that typically, people who own the great competition dogs are not really 'breeders.' (They are sport competitors) Breeding one tough dog to another tough dog without knowlege of history of bloodlines, how characteristics are brought forth, etc.. really intense knowlege of breeding, makes it difficult to produce a dog here for competition that would be as good as one bought overseas where the art of breeding is more common. Some people do title their own show line dogs, but again, many of the show competitors are not trainers... they just like to win in a breed show. Perhaps if that brought more recognition, more would be inclined to do their own titles. It is hard to find one who has knowlege to be good at so many things, a good breeder, a good trainer, a top competitor... It is also more common to find a good V - KKL1 working dog in Europe as it is a good working show dog. I think more people in Europe take ALL the requirements of the standard into account in breeding programs, where as here in the USA, people seem to either breed "working" dogs (with an emphasis on competition ability) or "show" dogs (with an overt emphasis on structure.) Too bad more people are not looking for a dog that meets all aspects of the standard for the GSD.

"people who own the great competition dogs are not really 'breeders.' (Steel Magnolia) But that raises the question - if they are competing with imports, does that then promote buying imports with people who are looking to compete ? Wouldn't this then in a sort of backwards way make American breeders want even MORE to make sure their pups are placed with handlers that can take them to a high level?

"Some people do title their own show line dogs, but again, many of the show competitors are not trainers... they just like to win in a breed show." I agree - but my question (maybe I wasn't clear) was why do you feel so many people send their dogs overseas? Why not build the sport in your own country? What would need to change to make it more attractive to support 'our own'?

for starters not everybody has good trainingfacilities in driving distance secondly , many americans got more money than time

LaPorte/Uwe You are both right on target getting the dogs to the right people critical in both the show and working lines. I try and keep puppies back till older to see what they are like hoping to get them to the sport homes were they need to be. I have about ten to fifteen out there now young dogs in good working homes and hope for the best. We also have some good prospects in our new green dog program as well. I have been known to give away puppies to trainers but that is really hard for any kennel to do for financial reasons. I try and cater to the schutzhund people in selection of the dog and the open policy to return it if it turns out not to be a sport puppy this way it takes some of the gamble out of buying a sport puppy for sure. If Wallace Payne, T. Floyd, Tracy Betenbaugh,Ray Beaty, Dean Caldron, Eric Eisenberg, AJ Sinyg, just to name a few, you know the list wanted a puppy it would be free for sure could only benefit me in the end. I have done this several times and only once had a bad experience a guy approached me for a free puppy who lived in Florida. He was a retired military K9 officer and if I gave him my best green dog at that time he would make sure I got noticed. I went for it gave him a good eight month old female with bite work started and he sold her in about a week for 5,000 and the guy called that bought her with additional questions. The Clubs in Europe are many and not as much expense involved is another factor. By the time you take a ten or 12 hour drive, motel, gas, food, fees etc it is sometimes out of reach for people. I think some of our kennels are doing a super job over here with producing good quality dogs. We need to help each other for one thing and lend information. Look at Molly Graf's Kennel lots of titled dogs from her kennel she must be doing a good job her breeding reflects this. Better females is also another key we cannot expect any stud dog to make up for females who are unsuitable for breeding. Read korungs, study bloodlines and most of all be critical of your self and do not repeat a litter if the result was bad. We could be a lot furthur than we are at this time with good communication and this data base sometimes is not a good source. Talking to the trainers who have seen dogs from our kennels and kennels in Europe are super sources. I love feedback from credible sources it is constructive. Before I owned a good stud I used other peoples dogs and not my own male for this reason. If you want to do better you can, it is a hard slow process but breeders will get there. We have never had the luxury of super studs over here and when they do come we are too busy tearing them apart or the owner to take advantage of the dog and he is usually dead when it sinks in. I think Schutzhund USA could help promote some programs as well and sponser some seminars to attract more people to the sport. I wondered why they did not have some of the Schutzhund people put on a show of the dogs for the general public to see as some people here have never heard the word Schutzhund. Education is good, exposure is good for any sport. Some of the Schutzhund Clubs do not want new members do not want to struggle helping the new person, not enought quality helpers another shortage badly needed here. The helpers get too many dogs to work we need more training for people to learn this skill as well. I hope the future is good for Schutzhund over here, I for one love it. I could sit at the sidelines of a trial for hours it still amazes me after twenty years of watching it. I think one of the most thrilling times was the Nationals when Petro/Wallace Payne won the Nationals and the dog jumped in his arms to see this at that moment dog and man working as a team it was exciting. I love this sport!

There are some - my own Eagle was bred by myself, is 22X Schh3 with 100% pronounced, 18X Schh3 at Regional and National Level, member of a world team. He is also V in conformation, KKl-1 for life, and healthy/working-sound at 8+ years old. Eagle is the third dog I raised/trained from my program that achieved multiple titles at National level. There have also been several other dogs from my program competing at National level in Schutzhund and other venues. Other breeders that have produced similar - Karmen Byrd has competed her home-bred dogs to Schh3 National level multiple times. Ivan B. and T Floyd both have had two home-bred dogs competing on world teams. I'm sure there are others, but there are not many breeders who keep their own puppies and raise/train them to that level, I wish there were more. molly Eichenluft Working German Shepherds http://workinggermanshepherd.com

I think the vast majority of trainers who have he skill level and resources (helpers, field, time etc) to show and be competitive at a regional or national event dont want to invest time into a puppy. There are a lot of factors that could go wrong vs buying a young dog. The pupy could have bad hips, not track well, cant handle stress etc .. I think this is why it very hard to give a top handler a puppy and have him invest his/her time, when they could just buy a dog that is 1 to 2 yrs. As for going to germany for those dogs, its a matter of numbers, there are more dogs to be had in europe, and im under the impression (having never been there) that they are more readily available. For example when i was looking for my dog Roland would call every week and say there is a dog for sale about 3 hrs away. A week later he was driving somewhere else, he could drive in 7 hrs in any direction and find at least 10 good to great dogs for sale. Im in NC and would find it hard to drive 7 hrs in any direction and find 5 good to great dogs for sales.. Its basically the path of least resisitance. my 2 cents