showline bred with workingline - Page 25

I think it would be wonderful for the breed if the number of German Shepherds and owners shrunk significantly.

What is fun on this board is that you can quit for a certain time and come back and it is still the same old thing...W/L bashing S/L and so on...looks like kindergarden!!

Daryl...What is real work to you?? and what is suitable for family living but not companion?? See..I don't get that!  Generally dogs that are strong in REAL work..are not good sports dogs..let's not mix banana's and apples here...We all know that Schutzhund is NOT real work!

When breeding W/L and S/L or when breeding period..you will gain and loose some of the traits of both parents.  people with W/L with no intentions of doing show have absolutly no interest in breeding S/L (they usually like the 1960's dogs and there GSD ressemble more and more like malinois!). And people doing show with dogs that have great anatomy and stucture looks at those Malinois type and say ARRRGHH! and they won't breed with those either because they don't want to loose what they have. And my opinion on it...TWO WORLDS WITH TWO DIFFERENTS VIEWS THAT WILL NEVER BE RECONCILIATED!

Too bad so sad..but that's the way it is...

How many repeated insults am I supposed to endure, and not be expected to respond?  I "graciously" left several pages ago, and the mud was continually slung at me!  Are you blind?!

Generally dogs that are strong in REAL work..are not good sports dogs..let's not mix banana's and apples here...We all know that Schutzhund is NOT real work!

Ah, and precisely why I differentiated between the two.  So what are you arguing?  Again, are you blind!?

Not suitable for family means exactly that.  These 3 dogs are not social, highly aggressive, and only appropriate for handlers of special circumstance, with experience and under constant supervision.  Not at all my preference, so don't go twisting that around either!

Sometimes it is OK to breed show and work. There must be reason for it though. And it is important that such Show dog is also excellent working dog and it is known that he produces himself. This is usually done in order to outcross from stronly linebred work line, and in order to introduce quality line from different gene pool. This had been done often in earlier days and it is harder to to today. This is not a work for beginner with great ideas but for seasoned and knowledgeable (of dogs genetics on the pedigrees used)  breeder who knows what he is doing and has certain purpose in mind supported by educated guess. That from such breedings are taken the best working pups with quality introduced there by this show dog. Sometimes you can linebreed on result of such  breeding 2-3 or 3 -4  and then outcross on strong working dog. 
This had been done on Villo Arminius.
 http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/28590.html  
It worked out pretty good even so I personally am not thrilled with Uran - his father's hips record.But there is no perfect dog. Then you need to culling, culling, culling,.... Breeding may be sometimes tough proposition. 
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com 

 I think that is the big problem, people think, well it has been done, and I need the money, so I will cross this shitter with my other barely average dog. That was a nice post. What do you think about Canto being in my dogs pedigree 14 times in the early 70's ? What influences do you think it might have ?

The funny thing about all breeds is that they have a standard for looks, but not a minimum standard for work. It used to be Sch, but that doesn't work anymore.

Each person has an acceptable minimum. Look at the video that graf posted. There are people on here that think that that is acceptable work, or even very nice work from that dog. 

Maybe the breed needs an acceptable standard for the ability to work.

I think it is time to start calling out the names of the breeders who produce shitters.  I would love to see this.  I mean, i know where my dogs have came from, and they have been called shitters too.   Just because I do not have video of them.   That is a very intellegent remark Jeff.

So call some of the folks out.  I am in the mood to laugh.  It would not shock me to see the kennels that produced my dog in there. 

Ready, set, go!!!

I would say a list of quality breeders would be better and much shorter.  So who are some good kennels that produce quality dogs?

Jeff, not 14 times but 42 times on half the pedigree of your dog.
Again, I think it matters significantly but that does not mean that these are bad traits. The only thing proved is that these dogs all share the same genetics.
Chris

 They shared the same genetics 40 years ago. I am curious to see what Prager has to say about that.  I think it means nothing at this point, but maybe how he is shaped. I don't really have any idea. 

Did you look up Daniel's site ??? I have e-mailed him about getting a puppy, and recieved no response. That was over a year ago, and I went to Laurent Liberal instead.

http://www.chiens-de-france.com/site_eleveur/index.php?rub=chiens&page=fiche&ID_ELEVEUR=12528&ID_SITE=13998&ID_CHIEN=143432&TABLE=t_chien_03&TITRE=

I think the best way is to go to France, or have him here as a judge. Very nice person, and he is, not to be rude, but getting old enough that he may not really want to deal with puppy people anymore. LOTS of knowledge.

I know if I go to France, I will sit outside his driveway, and hope that he comes and talks to me about breeding. I wonder what he would think about a dog 42 times, but 40 years ago.

Jeff,
I think that is the homepage you are looking for: www.bergerallemandhurlevent.com 
My French is a bit rusty, admittedly. Next week, when I see my coworker again who is fluent in French, I will check this site out some more.
He (or the family) has been breeding  GSDs since 1945. They have been around I guess. And I bet that he was personally well acquainted with Walter Martin who had tight connections to breeders in Italy and France.
This French breeder did or does have showline dogs as well. This is one I found on his homepage: www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/282594.html . And look here, ha ha! They have used Uran vom Wildsteiger Land as well in their lines: www.bergerallemandhurlevent.com/fichiers/fiche_chien.php .
Looking at his males, he only charges 250 Euros in stud fees. That is a lot lot less than we have to pay in Germany. Too bad that the SV does not recognize these working titles.
Jeff and darylehret, regardless of what you say but these French dogs were often outcrossed, and they sometimes (not often but they did) went to German showlines as well. Just like the Czech breeders did, see Hans' example above.
Chris