Pinch/Prong collar info needed - Page 2

Anthropomorphism is not at all appropriate in a discussion on animal training. Perhaps some of the posters in this thread should consider clicker training with wife and children.

Another option is to use gentle leader collar for strong dog that pull.

To inflict pain on a dog is not training but abusing. I find no need for a prong.. If you have a very good relationship with your dog and both you and your dog are happy on the field then the only thing you would need is to have a fursaver and have a good attitude on the field. Also Schutzhund trials prohibits you from using the prong (Or E-collars) on the field, why do you suppose that is? To save yourself from worrying about what your dog is going to do without one... learn to train with a fursaver. PS, The best way to stop the dog from pulling (with the fursaver) is to quickly go the other way (If your dog is pulling you from the north, go south!) the dog then corrects himself.. Do this couple of times and watch how the pulling stops.

LOL- I suppose they don't want them used because of Political correctness. Otherwise they would prohibit them in training at clubs also. By the way, fursavers can be used to inflict pain also, even in the method you advised there is some pain involved. I tell you what, when you get 300 points not using a pinch collar, I will throw mine away. Until then I will be abusing my dogs with them.

wardawg, Let ME tell you something. Not everybody is in schutzhund to show off to the crowd. Not everybody is in it for the points and etc. I would be damned to contuine with schutzhund If I have to put a prong on my dogs and correct my dogs to death to earn 300 points! I would rather quit Schutzhund all together and go to AKC obedience then to abuse my dogs and have them coward across the field and looking nervous, YES I like soft dogs... soft dogs actually have respect for their handlers, Unlike handler agressive dogs (which some macho men tend to have an orgasm with and climaxes when their dogs bite them) who have to be corrected every sec.

good attitude brittany -- i wouyld second that -- coming from Sch and ring sport --in ring onlu one exercise requires a buckle colar/leash ALL other exercises , even protection phase , are done w/o collars & leashes -- so -goes without saying -- the gentle leader and similar leads are a terrific tool --- especially with clicker training for behavior modification and counter-conditioning which i teach -- but as stated if the dog makes the decisions that you reaaly wish for even better -- same with your voice -- in Sch i often hear people shoput the commands .. Ha ypour dog sahould listen to you on a whisper -- never mind getting into prong collars -- gentle leader and halti leads are a great suggestion

Just curious, who has gotten 300 points with a pinch collar?

Gentle leaders and haltis can cause damage to the neck from a "whiplash" effect, dogs can be choked to death with fur savers and other choke chains, dogs can be punctured with pinch collars, etc... On the other hand, if it takes a pinch collar to get the dog more exercise and the dog can make the decision not to pull and not to get "pinched", then for certain dogs it might be worth it.

JFU, as far as I am concerned what you are doing is fine. Someday the younger dogs need to be under better control while using a buckle or non-restricting fursaver. Of course we all have the goal to have 100% coöperation from our dogs. Now guys, I really don't want any snickers concering the following statement. Many years ago I examined my first pinch collar and decided to place in on my own neck so I could understand how it worked and felt. What I felt was an even pressure from the prongs 3/4 of the way around the neck. I do remember it being unpleasant, but not really painful. Of course I could have made it very painful for myself or possibly fatal. I can sense the amount of force that I use, and typically never exceed this level. Again this collar, as any other type of collar, is designed for a quick correction pull of the leash and not a continuous tension. And of course verbal or visual commands have to be reinforecd at the same time. As far as manintaining control of the dog during bitework or agitation, the fursaver with the broad windpipe guard is the best as it allows the owner to hold back as hard as he wishes without damaging the dog's windpipe. In the end, the pinch collar is not a final solution, but merely a training tool, just as is a shocker, toe string, clicker, or treat. Bob-O

Pinch collars like anything, can be abused. They do have there place. We use them to help sharpen up the dogs out. I have never used one for obedience. When useing them to quicken the dogs out in bite work it is the decoy that is makeing the correction not the handler. I don't use them to teach the out, there are many better ways then that. Brit, A hard dog is not a handler aggresive dog. I have no use for handler aggresive dogs, they are counter productive. I also don't like soft dogs because if you put too much pressure on them they will drop off the sleeve or shut down. In police work we put alot of pressure on a dog in bite work, multiple gun shots, multiple hard stick hits and the dog stays on the sleeve, most just get more pissed and bite even harder and fight harder. These are true hard dogs, yet they are not handler aggressive. In our work a handler aggressive dog would be a liability for all. Our dogs are that hard yet very social, we can take them into schools and let the kids pet them. So just for your information a hard dog is not the same as a handler aggressive dog.