Pinch/Prong collar info needed - Page 1

I am wondering if anyone knows the reason the pinch collar was developed? I had someone ask me the question, and I wasn't able to answer it, so I am on the quest to find the answer! Please email me if you have the info I am looking for... workingdawgs@yahoo.com Thanks, Michelle

The design is to give pain to the dog without doing much actual damage. This divice allows us to hurt our dogs without causing any injurries.

as far as have heard -- the teory being that is analogous to a mother using her teeth on a young pups neck to comuunicate [ obviuously dissatifaction] -- but to hurt dogs -- that should never enter one's mind -- a great way to train isn't it [ meant sarcastically ] -- if you are inexperienced .. i would say that if used properly it has it's place like any other tool --but .. even a leash itself can be a weapon and inhumane to a dog !! a suggestion : use the prong collar reversed inside to out -- that is the prongs on the outside --it will still give [ i hate the word correction , teach your dog right from the start] communication -- it is like using a martingale collar -- BTW -- as i stated to a novice freind of mine last training session that desired to use one -- " you train and communicat to a dog with you mind and mouth -- not with punishment tools " --and BTW you can communicate with your dog with a regular buckle collar and yourself -- the leash and the collare arte only extentsions of self -- and if you rely on them -- then guess what -- most people -- as soon as that collar is off -- your dogs says " good-bye" -- contemplate how and what you do with your dogs -- __ I do not use a leash or a collar in traning my dog[ exception is protection phase ]

Prong collars can cause injuries, as of matter of fact it can cause such injury to the salvary glands that this would cause an early retirement to any schutzhund potential dogs. checkout http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/dogdiseasess/a/salivarygldcyst.htm Prong collars should be the last thing to use. It should NOT be used by an unexperienced trainer.

The prong collar was designed to deliver a pinching action most of the way around the neck when it is positioned and adjusted correctly. The pinch is remembered by any dog whose mother imprinted this form of correction while he was a puppy. It must not be in the same place on the neck as a regular buckle collar; rather it should be worn high on the dog's neck and nearly touching the rear of the lower jawbone. There should be little slack in the control chain. There are usually three (3) rings on the prong collar. The middle ring is used for quick correction as it provides the most "pinch". Either of the other rings (usually the one on the right side of the dog's neck) are used for a "reminder" rather than a true pinch. I'll touch a bit on what Alphapup says. Unless the dog wears the prong collar all of the time (never a good idea) he will know that as soon as it is removed that he can have his way. The prong collar certainly has a place while training a stubborn dog, or maintaining absolute control of a dog in a touchy situation. But, eventually the dog must learn that the master's movements and voice-not the collar, is the source of correction. Any dog who needs the assistance of a prong collar must eventually be just as controllable (unless doing bitework) while wearing a buckle collar or a fursaver. The prong collar, as cruel as it appears, does not damage the dog's throat such as cheap "choker" collar can in the wrong hands. I still use them in certain circumstances. My wife is very petite, and has issues with our young male because of his size and strength. The prong collar gives her nearly the same advantage that I have because of my physical size. I have also advised novices to use such a device to help control their family pet who will never be trained correctly. Sort of a mode of "power steering" and "power brakes" for the dog. In my opinion, the prong collar is a very humane device when adjusted and used correctly. However, it is not a substitute for a proper relationship between the owner and the dog. Bob-O

Pain is the strongest motivator there is. Or I should say the fear of pain. The pinch collar is inhumane, and if you think different put one on a child and walk through any Mall giving the kid corrections. I bet an officer will explain pretty quick if it is considered inhumane or not. However, guess what our dogs aren't human so we do have the right to use this on them. Bottom line a pinch collar is effective because the dog desire to avoid the pain it causes. This is a good thing. It is a very good motivator, an extremely good tool. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking of this as dog jewelery. It is inhumane, so what. It works.

BOb-O -- nice elaboration -- another note : yes the prong collar can be used as a means of comtrol so as a mouth bit on a horse --- however -- ?? what does control mean ?? -- again worn as a similar way as previously described , a martingale collar one can gain control without the pinching but if not -- then when you are in situations that warrants control in regards to aggression -- the prong collar may or most often accelerate the aggression -- with the dog haven had other otions taken from it as it still is limmitted by leash / collar and not being able to interact dog to dog in the norm of canine behaviorr and communications ..again . utilizing a prong collar , especially novices , actually will create worse problem [ one scenario is that now the dog experiences pain , is punished , and the association it can now only draw , is that confronting dogs is a very very bad experience ], so control ?? -- maybe yes?? but you have not taught the dog a better manner to behave , channel it's emotions or how to cope with that situation !! -- in essence not a great way to control IMO !! and without being atttitudinal -- if a person cannot handle a GSD they should not / or a Rottie , great dane st. bermnard .. so forth -- besides i have seen 8 and 10 year olds handle a GSD with their voice and leash -- e.g , refer to the ZEITUNG SV magazine -- size and stregth is not the criteria to controlling a dog IMO -- not meant to offend but to give food for thought--

Thanks, Alphapup. The reason that my wife needs the additional control is usually because of the abundance of wild game where she lives. Prey is prey, so to speak and a dog cannot ignore every rodent that dares to run across its path. A light but quick jerk of the leash with a verbal command gives her all of the control necessary while she is walking the boy. If it were not for all of the rabbits and squirrels the prong collar would not be necessary. She does quite well with all of the dogs, but has nearly the same body weight as the young male, hence the disadvantage. It that case I would rather see the prong collar used instead of seeing my wife on the ground because of a sudden surprise-it has happened. The boy knows that I am much more likely to apply a correction quicker, and behaves better when he is with me. I agree that the prong collar is not a cure-all for bad behaviour, lack of training, etc.. It is but an effective tool for certain situations. Bob-O

Bob - O -- ok i see yopur situation -- but not to give a training seminar here --if it were my dogs -- even more so .. no lwash -- like i once read in Max v. Stephanitz's book -- in the old days when the GSD went after chickens -- they used those chickens in a way that the GSD would not so much even think of looking at a chicken -- there are other modalities that may perhaps lend to a better way for your wife to have dominion over the GSD -- perhaps better and she won'y feel outmuscled when your GSD goes into prey /hunt motivatin behavior -- just a thought -- key -- the dog is better off deciding for itself not to encounter that specific prey -- --just a thought

hey all, I also have a question regarding the prong collar!! I walk my GSD'sall ususally at the same time that can mean 4 at once. the older ones are used to not pulling and obey like a charm but the younger ones pull so much that it became very unpleasan to walk them they are very active dogs with a ton of drive and even a leaf can make them run to catch it so they draged me all over.I have started using the prong collar to help on the pulling issue and they are great now. durring training I ususally use a choke collar though.my dogs are not afraid of the collar and i would love to know do you guys think what i am doing is ok? I mean i can't take evey dog out seperatly and once i get to my place in the fields they are all free so is it really that bad to use the prong collar in this way??