Panzies - Page 2

Sorry to hear you are not happy with your dogs, but I can't say I have that problem with mine. One is Working line and one is a half show half working mix. They both have wonderful temperaments, one is more outgoing and friendly than the other who is just aloof. My first priority would be that they are friendly and safe with non-threatening people. They should not be suspicious of everyone, I don't need any lawsuits. But there's no doubt in my mind they will protect me if need be. Funny story: A long time friend was at our house watching a football game, when our team scored he jumped up and grabbed my kids soft toy bat and slapped it against his hand while he cheered. My female leaped across the room, went after him, he held the bat in front of him to protect himself, she disarmed him, he put his hands up and everything was fine. lol. Lets just say he's never done that again. It's not a true savior story like Blitz's, but it confirmed my feeling that they will act appropriatley according to the situation. Although I agree that your dogs are too timid I think some people feel GSD's should be more aggressive or overly suspicious than what is truly correct.

Dawn, I'm not knocking show line or any other line I'm just saying that they are breeding the natural instincts right out of these beautiful animals. I personally love my dogs but I'm just asking why are they like whimps. Maybe as they get to be senior citizens, they will get a little grumpy. lol I have always and will always love the GSD.

First off, I agree 100% with you Tbay. To quick to buy. Didn't know what I know now. You know the old saying. IF I KNEW THEN Secondly, GEE WHIZ, it sure doesn't take much to get folks feathers ruffled. lol Third, Blitzen: I had a Blitz in 1974 and he was what you are saying about your Blitz. Believe me, you wouldn't touch anything in my home. BUT--When I said no he knew what that meant also. Gebrauchshund and Gebrauchshund, I really like your response. Thanks I guess I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on since some folks on here think that everytime a person speaks of some problem they think we are trying to cut on someone.

Gee, got some really good responses and some (Dawn) thinking I am being rude. Just was wanting to let people know what they are really doing to this gorgeous breed. I love the Black and Red or Tan which ever folks choose to call them. I equally like the Sables and Bi colors. Just that the Black and Red's are my choice for looks. It just seems that years ago when I would tell people that I had GSD's they would look and say gee, don't know if I want to come to your house lol. I have people come to my home for the first time and the dogs don't even bark when anyone new comes. They can walk up to my door and walk right in and the dogs lick them on the hands. I know without a doubt that an intruder could do the same thing. I just think it was nice when I had to say to the dogs when a stranger came and they would bark "Hey now, it's okay" and then they would go lay down somewhere and watch them. This is the type of GSD's I've always been used to having. They weren't mean at all and when I would go out with them they would not go charging after anyone but most folks respected their breed. I'm not knocking any lines or breeders in general, it's just that these dogs sure aren't what they used to be. As for furthering or bettering the breed, I don't think that this has anything to do with physical problems. Another big thing is this, almost everyone says they aren't in it for the money but for bettering the breed. Well, if they aren't in it for the money then why don't they sell their pups for just what they have in them (food,vets,and a few dollars for the care for the pups for the 8 or 10 weeks that they have them). This is just like horses. I showed horses for 30+ years and it got to where the local horse owners had to quit showing because the money got so out of hand that the little guy couldn't afford the entry fees. The folks with the money were going out and buying such high priced horses that the little guy couldn't compete with them. Everything is turning into money making schemes no matter how we look at it. People just don't want to accept this. They all want to justify the way they are going about it.

Here it goes again! The old showline vs working line and vice-versa. Showline Panzies versus Working line Panzers! When we stereotype the showline we automatically do the same on the other side too! Remember what we are looking for is for a dog to display protective and possessive behavior and to display this behavior in a structured and modifiable way.. If a pup in a litter shows the traits of determined explorative curiosity, boldness and investigative tendencies towards strangers and possessiveness towards objects when competing with littermates, then that pup will likely display the temperament of protectiveness and possessiveness towards high value objects in its world as an adult. You can get this in any line, but you have to look for it. I have seen a sable-coated working line dog run off the field when the handler tried to heel through a group. That dog never made it to his BH after 8 months of hard work with all kinds of soft motivational efforts. To approach any dog with colored shades on our vision that forms opinions based on parentage and coat color before we assess the dog on it’s own true worth will only bring us what we deserve….. the results of a Las Vegas slot machine.

Just remember what each of these type GSD's were bred for...Showlines and Worklines...the Showline was bred for Showing and the Workline was bred for working...so you can't expect what you don't breed for...I'm not saying that some Showline GSD's can't work becaue that's just not true...some can...just not too many...and their work can't be trusted...trusted to work consistently...and this is why so many workingline people don't like the showlines dogs...I had a showline dog back in the 80's and he was beautiful...but his temperament was not the best...I trained him in personal protection just to control his inner self...

This topic IMO has nothing to do with show/working lines. Immyjay just happens to have showlines so let's not try to knock down showlines just because he has showlines, what if he had workinglines? Would everyone be knocking down them. Back to the topic. Immyjay states he bought them when they were older. No ones knows how these dogs were raised as puppies, did they get the right socializing? were they around people and noises, cars, sirens etc. Maybe the breeding was not the right match.I would tend to believe they were in a kennel until they were sold, very little contact with anything. Then they were sold taken out from the only thing they know(kennel) possibly shipped(scared to death with noises they never heard)and now they are scared of everything. I know a dog that was brought over from Germany (yes,someone did see the dog and it was very outgoing and did very nice work) put the dog on the plane and who knows what happened during the flight but they go pick up the dog at the airport and it is a spook. Afraid of everyone and everything. The dog is doing better but will never be the same as it was in Germany. IMO I think you are at risk for buying an older dog you never know what you might get.If you get a dog that is absolutly clear in the head and has a strong temperment it should be fine but if it is not you may have a problem when you take that dog from what it is used to. Good luck Immyjay with your dogs maybe time will help.

I have an 11 week old show line - European bred - puppy that absolutely loses his mind when people come too close to the backyard. I'm never going to show this dog, he can't stand to be touched by strangers. I have socialized him for weeks and the bottom line is that he's not a really friendly puppy. He's not mean, but he needs his space. He likes to go out in public, and if a stranger runs past him, he tries to chase them... we're working on that one. Anyway, he is just perfect for me. I'm not sure I have enough energy for a working line GSD. Although, I'm pretty green so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about anyway! :) Melissa

Immyjay, Your comment was not rude, and I did not take it that way. The money comment bothered me. Was your intention to buy these two dogs in order to breed to make money off of them, then that would be alright? You speak of breeders' doing this. Did you inform the breeder about the temperament? Also, color should be the last consideration when deciding to buy a dog. Temperament and health should come first. I have 3 GSD'S living with me. Two older dogs and a pup. Believe me, people do not come near the door when they see the 2 older dogs at the door, AND they are not barking!! Dawn Bonome

show and working are two completely things even thougth they could easily be combine looj at ursus von batu, he is a schutzhund 3 and great sieger, you can combine this, all this refres back to blood and lineage i own a ursus grandson, a wonderful dog, protective of my family in the mean time beatiful colors and pigmentation the key here is breeders and responsible owners and educated people around the dog to show them what he is really up to, now there could be some problems such as the dogs drive,maybe thats the biggest question here?