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by Marcelitaz on 01 June 2010 - 18:06
Continues Guman´s article (a part of an article)
I am the Superalfa of the whole group, although this, according to my wife I think is not entirely defined, as will see below, I have the handicup of age. My wife's post a little step below mine, and my two children so they do not fight the post a rung below but in it. In the next rung down, you find my German Shepherd-Czech "Moro" as alpha dog of the pack, then our Maltese cross "neck" that despite being tiny is respected by the other female as a matter of age, almost the double. And finally our German shepherd dog "Yerba" very submissive character. • If a stranger approaches the enclosure, Moro, as alpha dog is the first to protect the territory, while other members remain vigilant in case the alpha fulfilling their duties, need help. (In dogs protect the territory is a matter for all members, even though the front is always the most dominant). If I'm this, I go to meet the intruder, while I can see, we all remain expectant.
In cases where the owners, not impose, in one form or another hierarchy, the dog becomes a self-taught and put into practice the behaviors that are characteristic for the species, avoiding and / or defending / rebuking everything frighten or disturb him and repeating what some benefit. So that if you do not put the animal remedy is, to not feel led, the self proclaimed "family patriarch" and determine the rules of "game" as he marked his instincts.
.
Whatever their origin, age, race, sex ... the dog who comes to a new family expects us to help you get oriented. As it is and try to find out how the new world we are now, that other beings or things in it, who holds the command and what role he plays in this new social structure remains unknown. Knowing that reaches an already formed and organized group applies to find your place and wait for the new owners be assigned a particular role. If he be the determining role.
The family acquired a dog usually has a tendency to think, even in the depths of the subconscious that the new acquisition will want, and even that we are very grateful for having received in our family. I mean, we tend to "humanize" our dog from the idea that he thinks, acts and feels like us, so, in certain situations when our dog is acting "wrongly" from our point of view, we are surprised. What happens is that we realize that our dog of the same assumption as us but in reverse: He believes that we think and we are guided by the standards of the dogs.
Since our canine despite his great ability to interpret our gestures, tone of voice ... not going to learn to communicate as humans, because they are not trained to do so, we must, if we want to inform you effectively with our dogs, make an effort to learn to "think and communicate with them in the way that they do between individuals of the same species."
I am the Superalfa of the whole group, although this, according to my wife I think is not entirely defined, as will see below, I have the handicup of age. My wife's post a little step below mine, and my two children so they do not fight the post a rung below but in it. In the next rung down, you find my German Shepherd-Czech "Moro" as alpha dog of the pack, then our Maltese cross "neck" that despite being tiny is respected by the other female as a matter of age, almost the double. And finally our German shepherd dog "Yerba" very submissive character. • If a stranger approaches the enclosure, Moro, as alpha dog is the first to protect the territory, while other members remain vigilant in case the alpha fulfilling their duties, need help. (In dogs protect the territory is a matter for all members, even though the front is always the most dominant). If I'm this, I go to meet the intruder, while I can see, we all remain expectant.
In cases where the owners, not impose, in one form or another hierarchy, the dog becomes a self-taught and put into practice the behaviors that are characteristic for the species, avoiding and / or defending / rebuking everything frighten or disturb him and repeating what some benefit. So that if you do not put the animal remedy is, to not feel led, the self proclaimed "family patriarch" and determine the rules of "game" as he marked his instincts.
.
Whatever their origin, age, race, sex ... the dog who comes to a new family expects us to help you get oriented. As it is and try to find out how the new world we are now, that other beings or things in it, who holds the command and what role he plays in this new social structure remains unknown. Knowing that reaches an already formed and organized group applies to find your place and wait for the new owners be assigned a particular role. If he be the determining role.
The family acquired a dog usually has a tendency to think, even in the depths of the subconscious that the new acquisition will want, and even that we are very grateful for having received in our family. I mean, we tend to "humanize" our dog from the idea that he thinks, acts and feels like us, so, in certain situations when our dog is acting "wrongly" from our point of view, we are surprised. What happens is that we realize that our dog of the same assumption as us but in reverse: He believes that we think and we are guided by the standards of the dogs.
Since our canine despite his great ability to interpret our gestures, tone of voice ... not going to learn to communicate as humans, because they are not trained to do so, we must, if we want to inform you effectively with our dogs, make an effort to learn to "think and communicate with them in the way that they do between individuals of the same species."
by Mrk on 03 June 2010 - 12:06
" Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:39 pm
Hi, what I am going to say is to all who are interested in this thread, but I would like Prager and Steve1 to pay close attention it may be of good benefit as a true piece of information
Here where I live there are no shows, no clubs, no shutzhund training is available. The only place where dogs get real training is in the Police special dog unit. Most of the people here who need dogs in their life have local dogs, no breed or breed name, no uniformity in size, color etc.
Example 1
As I said before beduins use dogs as shepherd and watch dogs at night, they pick a homeless puppy every now and then, feed him, take him with the sheep in the day, tie him at night and leave him. They no nothing about training dogs, if they hear that in other countries they train dogs and have clubs etc they would, I amagine, laugh and disbelieve. Some of those picked dogs excell as shepherds and watchdogs. I have seen that there is no way you can enter their area at night. They bark fiercely and pull on their chains in a frightening way to a stranger. I think they understand by nature, genetics or whatever their role with the owner or maybe they give him back for the food and home he gave them. Old people here say (a dog which does not protect its territory is not worth the food he eats).
Example 2
Most Stock farmers who raise sheep, cows etc have local dogs who guard their stock at night, without training and most of them excel in that.
Example 3
There are people who live in the city, but have small farms in rural agricultural areas, go to those farms on week ends as picnic and grow in them vegetables, chickens etc. Some of these people can afford to pay for a breed dog. The trend was to get a show line GSD as it was the only line known to people. In general a showline GSD (according to our experience) excells as a pet and only to frighten strangers with its size. I am sorry to say this but a local average dog is much better as a gurd dog (no training). Also according to our experience, some of the show GSD will defend its owner if he understands hi owner is in danger.
Recently, some started bringing Working line puppies and raise them, the three I know and seen are excelling in territory protection so far (no training whatsoever).
One of my friends imported a working line GSD, a grown one with titles, till now he is not getting it, he does not guard.
Ibrahim "
Hi, what I am going to say is to all who are interested in this thread, but I would like Prager and Steve1 to pay close attention it may be of good benefit as a true piece of information
Here where I live there are no shows, no clubs, no shutzhund training is available. The only place where dogs get real training is in the Police special dog unit. Most of the people here who need dogs in their life have local dogs, no breed or breed name, no uniformity in size, color etc.
Example 1
As I said before beduins use dogs as shepherd and watch dogs at night, they pick a homeless puppy every now and then, feed him, take him with the sheep in the day, tie him at night and leave him. They no nothing about training dogs, if they hear that in other countries they train dogs and have clubs etc they would, I amagine, laugh and disbelieve. Some of those picked dogs excell as shepherds and watchdogs. I have seen that there is no way you can enter their area at night. They bark fiercely and pull on their chains in a frightening way to a stranger. I think they understand by nature, genetics or whatever their role with the owner or maybe they give him back for the food and home he gave them. Old people here say (a dog which does not protect its territory is not worth the food he eats).
Example 2
Most Stock farmers who raise sheep, cows etc have local dogs who guard their stock at night, without training and most of them excel in that.
Example 3
There are people who live in the city, but have small farms in rural agricultural areas, go to those farms on week ends as picnic and grow in them vegetables, chickens etc. Some of these people can afford to pay for a breed dog. The trend was to get a show line GSD as it was the only line known to people. In general a showline GSD (according to our experience) excells as a pet and only to frighten strangers with its size. I am sorry to say this but a local average dog is much better as a gurd dog (no training). Also according to our experience, some of the show GSD will defend its owner if he understands hi owner is in danger.
Recently, some started bringing Working line puppies and raise them, the three I know and seen are excelling in territory protection so far (no training whatsoever).
One of my friends imported a working line GSD, a grown one with titles, till now he is not getting it, he does not guard.
Ibrahim "
by Mrk on 03 June 2010 - 12:06
" Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:39 pm
Hi, what I am going to say is to all who are interested in this thread, but I would like Prager and Steve1 to pay close attention it may be of good benefit as a true piece of information
Here where I live there are no shows, no clubs, no shutzhund training is available. The only place where dogs get real training is in the Police special dog unit. Most of the people here who need dogs in their life have local dogs, no breed or breed name, no uniformity in size, color etc.
Example 1
As I said before beduins use dogs as shepherd and watch dogs at night, they pick a homeless puppy every now and then, feed him, take him with the sheep in the day, tie him at night and leave him. They no nothing about training dogs, if they hear that in other countries they train dogs and have clubs etc they would, I amagine, laugh and disbelieve. Some of those picked dogs excell as shepherds and watchdogs. I have seen that there is no way you can enter their area at night. They bark fiercely and pull on their chains in a frightening way to a stranger. I think they understand by nature, genetics or whatever their role with the owner or maybe they give him back for the food and home he gave them. Old people here say (a dog which does not protect its territory is not worth the food he eats).
Example 2
Most Stock farmers who raise sheep, cows etc have local dogs who guard their stock at night, without training and most of them excel in that.
Example 3
There are people who live in the city, but have small farms in rural agricultural areas, go to those farms on week ends as picnic and grow in them vegetables, chickens etc. Some of these people can afford to pay for a breed dog. The trend was to get a show line GSD as it was the only line known to people. In general a showline GSD (according to our experience) excells as a pet and only to frighten strangers with its size. I am sorry to say this but a local average dog is much better as a gurd dog (no training). Also according to our experience, some of the show GSD will defend its owner if he understands hi owner is in danger.
Recently, some started bringing Working line puppies and raise them, the three I know and seen are excelling in territory protection so far (no training whatsoever).
One of my friends imported a working line GSD, a grown one with titles, till now he is not getting it, he does not guard.
Ibrahim "
Hi, what I am going to say is to all who are interested in this thread, but I would like Prager and Steve1 to pay close attention it may be of good benefit as a true piece of information
Here where I live there are no shows, no clubs, no shutzhund training is available. The only place where dogs get real training is in the Police special dog unit. Most of the people here who need dogs in their life have local dogs, no breed or breed name, no uniformity in size, color etc.
Example 1
As I said before beduins use dogs as shepherd and watch dogs at night, they pick a homeless puppy every now and then, feed him, take him with the sheep in the day, tie him at night and leave him. They no nothing about training dogs, if they hear that in other countries they train dogs and have clubs etc they would, I amagine, laugh and disbelieve. Some of those picked dogs excell as shepherds and watchdogs. I have seen that there is no way you can enter their area at night. They bark fiercely and pull on their chains in a frightening way to a stranger. I think they understand by nature, genetics or whatever their role with the owner or maybe they give him back for the food and home he gave them. Old people here say (a dog which does not protect its territory is not worth the food he eats).
Example 2
Most Stock farmers who raise sheep, cows etc have local dogs who guard their stock at night, without training and most of them excel in that.
Example 3
There are people who live in the city, but have small farms in rural agricultural areas, go to those farms on week ends as picnic and grow in them vegetables, chickens etc. Some of these people can afford to pay for a breed dog. The trend was to get a show line GSD as it was the only line known to people. In general a showline GSD (according to our experience) excells as a pet and only to frighten strangers with its size. I am sorry to say this but a local average dog is much better as a gurd dog (no training). Also according to our experience, some of the show GSD will defend its owner if he understands hi owner is in danger.
Recently, some started bringing Working line puppies and raise them, the three I know and seen are excelling in territory protection so far (no training whatsoever).
One of my friends imported a working line GSD, a grown one with titles, till now he is not getting it, he does not guard.
Ibrahim "
by charlie319 on 03 June 2010 - 13:06
Hi MRK/Ibrahim
Thanks to websites such You Tube, one can get the basic rudiments of dog training with video. You also have websites such as this one where you can get help. There's also Leerbug Kennels free e-books to help people get started.
Sometimes, the dogs grow into their temperaments. Many Working lines dogs take a little longer to fully mature and come into their own. Don't despair.
Thanks to websites such You Tube, one can get the basic rudiments of dog training with video. You also have websites such as this one where you can get help. There's also Leerbug Kennels free e-books to help people get started.
Sometimes, the dogs grow into their temperaments. Many Working lines dogs take a little longer to fully mature and come into their own. Don't despair.
by Mrk on 03 June 2010 - 13:06
charlie219,
i am not Ibrahim. it was a quote from what he said in the past.
i am not Ibrahim. it was a quote from what he said in the past.
by troublelinx on 03 June 2010 - 17:06
Mrk,
It seems as though mrk is baiting people into an argument.
If so I will take the bait.
People have given you a lot of information that should have increased your understanding of the problems you have with your dog. If you learned something great. If you did not learn anything then you are a f***ing dumb ass idiot.
So, have you learned anything?
Sincerely,
Trouble
It seems as though mrk is baiting people into an argument.
If so I will take the bait.
People have given you a lot of information that should have increased your understanding of the problems you have with your dog. If you learned something great. If you did not learn anything then you are a f***ing dumb ass idiot.
So, have you learned anything?
Sincerely,
Trouble
by Swifteagle on 03 June 2010 - 23:06
My two cents worth.... I AM NOT AN EXPERT but Read throught.
Mrk I agree with you to an extent.. I would be annoyed if I paid a lot of money for a dog that did not protect its terretory or even pretend to do so.. I would probably sell the dogs to a good home and by one that would suit regarless of what your children would say, they will move on and they will fall in love with the new pup.
You do have to remember what other people have said about your dogs having great nevers and therefore very confident dogs, which is a good thing.
Dogs that bark alot are usually just good at that and wont do much for protecting your property.
So in my eyes you have two options, sell the dogs to a good home and get a puppy that will do the job or train the ones you already have. JUST DO ONE OF THE TWO, OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE UNHAPPY AND WILL EVENTUALLY HATE YOUR DOGS!
AND IDEA FOR YOU:
dont let anyone but your family touch your dogs, that might help.
Good luck
by charlie319 on 04 June 2010 - 01:06
MRK:
I have the other end of the issue. My male GSD is very, very, very protective with a lot of defense drive and some prey drive.
Work with your dogs. The relationship you have with a working dog is just like any other. You get out of it most of what you put into it.
I have the other end of the issue. My male GSD is very, very, very protective with a lot of defense drive and some prey drive.
Work with your dogs. The relationship you have with a working dog is just like any other. You get out of it most of what you put into it.
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 04 June 2010 - 01:06
I am just curious... what makes everybody think that these dogs have "good nerves", as opposed to being a stupid showline no drive deadheads?
Do your dogs ever chase a cat? Ever shown any interest in a squirrel? Another dog walking by? A bird in a yard? Anything?
Do your dogs ever chase a cat? Ever shown any interest in a squirrel? Another dog walking by? A bird in a yard? Anything?
by Swifteagle on 04 June 2010 - 03:06
I am now 100% sure that you should sell or give away your dogs to a good family...
I think this should bring your frustration to a halt. I think it is for the best of you and your dogs.
Regards
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