Sch German Shepherd...No Natural instinct to protect family!!!! - Page 2

Mrk
What on earth are you talking about , Your Dogs do not bark when folk walk by your property
WHY do you want your Dogs to bark everytime someone walks by
It is a far different thing if anyone trys to break in they will bark then
Do not blame your Dogs for anything they are fine
IT is YOU who need to be trained first, then you will be able to train your Dogs, but it seems they are doing a good job without any help from you, Start to learn about them, because of what you say you know very little abut them,
As For SchH you evidently know nothing about it and it seems you have not tried to that is Lazy, then to go commenting on it
Steve1

I feel very sorry for your dogs. No wonder they have no desire to protect you or a home where they are not appreciated.

You failed to mention what and how much training you have been through with either or both of them.  If you bought both of these GSD's based on their parents abilities or accomplishments and never trained them to do anything, you are expecting too much. Titles and abilities of the parents are not a guarantee but can give a person an idea of what is possible through training.  At least fill us in on the training that you have been doing with them.

Well you are quite opinionated for being completely uneducated!!

I can't say whether or not your dogs are lacking anything and neither can you without having a professional trainer evaluate them.

But I can say that it sounds like you have confident dogs with good nerves.  An untrained dog that is extremely sharp is most likely lacking confidence and is overcompensating with aggression.  Do most GSD's bark behind the fence on their property...yes but if they don't it doesn't mean they are junk...get off your couch and train them.

Are your dogs too confident? Perhaps, but proper professional training can give them the ability to recognize a threat...I am not necessarily talking about SchH, but even though SchH is a sport that does not require civil training it can teach a dog to do this.

For example...I was directly involved with the testing and training for a local police K9 unit, dogs previously had zero training.  Two of the dogs were very confident and social.... during pre-testing  they stood foreward and wagged their tails!  After minimal foundation TRAINING in prey which taught them to bark and bite... they tested again to pick the dogs that would be trained, when showed aggitation from a stranger one lit up with aggression and one didn't.  The one that lit up was from workinglines and probably had a SchH background.  The one that did not was a white GSD with likely an all pet background.

Just because the parents are SchH3 does not mean the pups will drop out of their mom as a personal protection dog!!

Also SchH and personal protection are NOT the same thing.  there are many SchH dogs who could be very good PPD's.  It is just that their owners/trainers/handlers choose not to go down that path with them.  It doesn't make them any less of a dog!  Some people just enjoy the sport or use it to determine breeding suitability.  Titles and scores don't prove everything, but they are not junk either!  You must WATCH the dog work to evaluate their strenth in aggression and their presence. 

Also Letting the dog with and carry the sleeve is very important in bitework training to build confidence and encourage a strong bite (for any venue...SchH, PSA, PDK9)...especially in the early stages of foundation training.  There are other ways to train civil or "man orientation" later when the dog is mature and he knows how to grip/bite strong and shows confidence in his work.  AND just because a dog carries the sleeve does NOT mean they are equipment fixed sleeve suckers!!  It is obedience if I want my dog to carry they will carry, if I want them to drop it and engage again they will do so!

I will even show you a couple videos to "educate" you....
here is a video of my dog doing schH (she is SchH2)...OMG she carries the sleeve!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_WZnS6zqmE

Here is a video of THE SAME DOG doing civil work and man orientation...watch the second half of the video
http://www.youtube.com/gsdfan1#p/a/u/2/_Cszy8h1Ojc

Now instead of throwing insuts and false accusations about something you don't have a clue about get off your couch and spend some time TRAINING your dogs and LEARN!  You have NO right to pass judement and ignorantly generalize the character of every dog that has a SchH title!!

GSDfan ...your dog is brilliant i like how shes quite civil she dident care for the sleeve just wanted the guy(helper)

credit to you and your dog

clint

Mrk:

 

Listen to GSDfan and get your dogs evaluated and trained according to their potential.  In SchH, the sleeve is more like a toy that the dog is allowed to bite.  In other disciplines, the handler extends the authority to bite to other areas. That is how you see a dog like GSDfan's bite correctly in SchH and then go bite correctly in civil work.  It is all about adequately controling your dog in the venue or sport you are working.

BTW: A GSD is like any other living animal.  It will protect itself first and then their pack.  Even PP dogs have to be trained to protect their handler.  Find a local working dog club to train your dogs and you.  If you think that SchH is for friendly dogs, you may want to try KNPV or some other sport more to your liking.

 mrk, don't even THINK of insulting my dogs, whom you have never even laid eyes on. You can't even evaluate your own dogs correctly. GROW UP.

And when my dog titles in PSA next month, I most definitely WILL remember this thread and your asininity.I'll also remember the evaluation I got from a real trainer/judge and how you think you know better. What a schmuck!

I do some rescue on the side. Send me your dogs and I'll get them into a proper home.

I have a SL girl that will protect me, we tested this in training.  The helper gave her a couple of bites and then when she was running around with the sleeve in her mouth, he walked up and gave me a hug.  She droped the sleeve and ran over to him and pushed him away from me.  She is only 16 mo. old.  SL or WL it does not matter.  Everyone is right it does not matter if the parents are SchH III or police dogs YOU have to train them.

Mrk, you are more than welcome to send me your 2 GSD's.  Here they will be evaluated by my trainer and given appropriate training, I will care for them even if they never bark at my fence - I have my Mal for that.  I will nor come on line and trash them because I fasiled to do the right things.

The OP's dogs are not Schutzhund titled the parents are, so it's a bit unfair to criticize the sport referring to the behaviour of untrained and untitled dogs regardless of their parents ability. I have both a German show line and a working line GSD both male and the show line is over sharp and stranger aggressive and the working line is a freindly dog with a wagging tail, except, challenge the show line and he backs off, challenge the working line dog and he will hurt you for real. The difference between my two is massive in their disposition. The show line looks as if he wants to bite everyone with voilent aggression on the end of leash towards a stranger in the street, the working line dog will sit nicely for a stranger to pat him or a child to cuddle him, but my poor show line is a nervy dog although looking the protector is no good on the field under pressure, erratic and lacking confidence. The working line dog is the complete opposite.

But the point is, the working line dog who looks placid and calm is the dog to cause someone injury if required and the sharp show line under pressure will run away. My working line dog is the one who looks like the crappy protector and too often overly sharp nervy dogs are mistaken for good examples of working potential which IMHO is completely wrong.