Breed Betterment Registry for GSDs - Page 1

This site was buried in a long thread, but I just checked it out. SUPER, much needed registry about recording health issues so that they can be publicly seen! EVERYONE should visit this site and register their dogs if they have health issues, and check this site before buying a pup!! Kudos to those who started this!!! Hopefully it will also put some public pressure on breeders who are consistently producing health problems related to a particular stud or bitch to not continue using them, Problems will occur from time to time, but to consistently leave owners with new pups with serious, lifelong, expensive health problems is just unethical. www.gsdbbr.org Check it out, and register.

I have my doubts about the value of such a database. For one thing, regardless of who does the actual entry, the question is whether the average person really can provide accurate information. Garbage in, Garbage out is the old phrase. A database is only as good as its data and good data is not easy to come by. As well, vets often do not diagnose conditions properly or correctly. Secondly, a cursory look at this database shows almost exclusively American bloodline dogs. The value to the breed as a whole is mute because most German line breeders are not going to be breeding their dogs to American bloodline dogs. The main problem lies with unethical breeders. It is a sad fact that there is no way to get the word out when people are breeding poor quality dogs with health or temperament problems. Sure, there are personal vendettas posted, but all too often, we read about the same people over and over and over on boards like this as many complaints come about the same person. Yet the moderator gods of this board and others will immediately delete comments all too often that expose unethical breeding or problems in bloodlines. So I actually pity even the person trying to do their homework because how is the average person to find someone to help them get a good dog? When buying a dog, or a car, or whatever, do your homework as I and others have said repeatedly. That being said, even ethical breeders often do not see a given health problem crop up in a dog used in breeding until several litters have already been bred and sold. It is no different in dogs than in humans. All too many diseases show up all to late to make rational decisions about whether there should or should not be offspring produced. Just think, if we adhered to some of the things people think on this board and applied it to humans, we might be a very different planet, and I am not sure that would necessarily be a positive gain. The bottom lines is that all creatures and that includes humans and dogs, have disease, sooner or later. It does not necessarily mean that anyone did anything wrong. It is life.

i hope this is a useful site -- but with heman nature as it is .. and i am not negative -- it is just what has occured .. the German shepherd dog has been sold-out --betrayed -- i for one have had more than a half dozen progeny directly form VA-1 -- now mind you .. VA-1 .. they get to that point because of the progeny they can produce in addition to structure and Sch 3 -- then why on earth, the BEST of the BEST GSD in the whole entire world , is it , that so many progeny have health problems ?? i have not included the numerous calls nationally that i have recieved in like and the number of acquaintances that have ahd similar experiences -- yes dog are like people --they do get illnesses ..no question ...-- but my next comment -- then why are they so categorized .. hip dysl;palsia , pancreatic problems , degenerative myelopathy , , anal fistulas and soft ears -- these are excetpionally frequent and should not be so , and in German Lines -- above and beyond they have genetic bases- the urge to get high show /trial positions have sold-out the breed !! becuase that is where the BIG TIME MONEY supposedly is - that's where pride , predujuice and ego lie if it is nopt for the money -- certainly it is not for the benefit of the dog -- did you ever see a dog complain that it got 10 place ?? MY BIGGEST GRIPE .. EXCESSIOVE LINEBREEDING yto get the perfect[nonsense] 1 place dog -- and wehat about the behavioral traits -- isn't that as or more important than a show rating in regards to the GSD?? beleive me .. as in the olden days if your life depended on them rather than how they show -- bleieve me you would go for character and innate instincts/behavioral traits -- the GSD in my opinion has become a commodity and has be betrayed /sold-out-- and i have owned more than 20 so far in my lifetime as companions.my fear -- even with statistical proof --the more things change -- the more they stay the same --no negativity --just plain truth and fact

I agree that this is not an end-all solution to the health issues that crop up in GSDs, and I also agree that as of right now it is predominantly American lines. There is nothing saying that German lines cannot be registered. I do think it is a step in the right direction. Yes, there will be health problems on occasion no matter what you do as a breeder - it is life, as you say. I agree. How often, though, do we find unethical breeders that keep breeding dogs that consistently produce the same problems? I would like to see a database that can show how many genetic issues are showing up in certain breedings, and the kennels that are turning out the pups. If you can see that Kennel X over and over has hip problems with the same stud, yet continues to use him, litter after litter, well, that should be public knowledge. Same thing with monorchid/cryptorchid issues, allergies, DM, eye problems, ETC. It looks like this database is something that is just getting started, but I believe it will grow into something that is very useful and needed. There needs to be more public knowledge - with specifics - about what is going on healthwise with our breed.

We have to start somewhere and this is an excellent place.. Marjorie Zimmerman started this database along with the help of a friend who set it up. It is open to ALL GSD's wherever they originated.. I have a German dog entered on there that we purchased at 8 years of age and 4 months later he died from gastric torsion.(Boccy v Ritterberg) Sure it takes time to enter all the data, but would be well worth it. I have more than one entry and have numerous more to make.. Marjorie is more than happy to help with any questions you may have etc. Please spread the word and help make this database the excellent tool we all know it will be..

I examined the database and I think the idea is excellent. The serious issues I see have already been covered above. The caveat-No breeder is going to place a sire/dam on that page who either died early or suffers daily because of an illness that was genetic in origin, nor will he/she list the progeny produced that had health/conformation issues. The only people who will input this information are either those who had bad luck with a puppy, or those who wish to brag about the healthy longevity of their dog/bitch. So many of us never know how a puppy fares unless we are geographically close to the owner. That is, unless, the puppy has problems. GIGO-that spoils the accuracy of any database. At least there was a question as to whether a malady was veterinarian-diagnosed. Again, I think it is a good start. The same problems exist in all three (3) breed lines; just some more prevalent than others. Bob-O

In order for the information in this or any database to be statistically significant and relevant for consideration, there would have to be hundreds of thousands of entries. In the meantime, people who know little about statistics, about GSDs and about all the potential problems with such limited and unscientifically collected data make decisions which may or may not be good decisions. Good science is not done by anecdotal information. Anyone who knows me knows that I am constantly telling it like it is about both unethical breeders and the health issues that can be found in this breed. It is sad that no one wants to take such people to task. Having a database like this is fraught with difficulties and I doubt not only the veracity of some of the reports, but the reasons behind doing it. It would be far better for EACH GSD organization to have a Breeders' Code of Ethics and a committee who is able to investigate potential violations of that code. But alas, that too will never happen. The GSDCA has such a code, but it is a joke and certainly no one does anything about it when complaints are filed. The SchH organizations in the USA have no such code and do little to take unethical people to task. Making decisions on limited data can propel one into a world of mistakes. Limited data is all that will ever be on this data base. And people who think it is the end all and be all for all problems related to health know nothing of genetics or statistics.

I don't think the site is advertising to be the "end all" or provide complete data. Everything has to start somewhere. I applaud their efforts, and if EVERYONE gets involved, it will start to be useful. It will continue to be limited data as long as people find reasons to be skeptical about the site and do not enter their dogs. I for one can think of countless people who have bought pups and wish that they had been able to read more about the problems certain breeders/studs are consistently producing.

Testing- post not going through?

I think the reason why so many are American German Shepherds is because it was listed on American GSD list. I get people that know me say " Boy you have a lot of problems" and I come back with "the more you bred the more problems you will come across" I have had almost everything happen BUT I AM HONEST ABOUT IT, More breeders need to understand that it is ok to say you have had problems so we all can learn from each other. This only helps the bred, lying about it creates more problems. Problems are going to happen at one point or another. We are not GOD!