linebreed or not? - Page 2

thanks again. i have seen his pedigree and understand a little bit about linebreeding,just dont know what is wrong and right(better or worse).i didnt know if breeding with show lines decreased value or worth of puppies.i just didnt want to learn only by trial and error,because there are already enough dogs in dogpounds. i cant seem to find any information on tj vom enckhausen as far as characteristics or traits .i am wondering because my dog sounds like tara vom wildenbruch(paskas mom)than he does brawnson or paska as far as i have read about them. only wondering because of what jeff said about puppies and grandparents. i wont be breeding for a few months but plan on asking plenty more questions before i do. thanks for the websites. my dog being 2-2 is unacceptable or not. i was under the impression it was good breeding he came from.i dont understand johnny g's comment.

Under the SV's rules, you are allowed a 2-3 breeding, although there are a few dogs that were excepted with a 2-2 breeding. The AKC doesn't care if you breed father and daughter. I had talked to Mike about the dogs he has now and what they were producing. He told me that at the time TJ had only sired a couple of litters, and of those he had only seen a couple of the dogs. http://www.performancek9.org/ is Mikes website. TJ was listed on his site for awhile as a Dual Purpose Police dog, but has been taken off the site. I would contact him personally to find out about your dogs lines. He'd know them better than anyone else, plus he might know of some of the lines that would produce what you are looking for. Also, you might try to get with a schutzhund club, you will be able to learn so much first hand from them. Jeff

thanks jeff. i didnt get the dog directly fron shelby(paskas owner)so i didnt want to bother her or mike with my nonsense.but i live in indy so maybe i will contact him and meet him and tj.thanks for all the information everyone,i am learning already. so i take it this breeding was done by accomplished people and is acceptable to most or not?

Jamie, your dog is not from Germany so don't worry about what his own line breeding is from that aspect. You have the dog now and if you want to breed him eventually you need to work with what you have. Can't be changed now. A 2-2 line breeding can be done within the SV BTW - very close line breedings that are considered incest breedings need permission. As a general recommendation, Jamie, when using a dog that is already very closely line bred, then you should go wide next time. If you keep staying close you are compounding all aspects of the dog you are line breeding to. The good and the bad. The more you compound these factors the more predominant both the good and the bad gets. Meaning the good tends to get very good, the bad tends to get very bad. That goes for all traits the dog has - temperament, working ability, health. You can also get some weird recessive combinations that bring forth hidden problems that otherwise would not have appeared. For a seasoned breeder who wants to build a line on a certain dog, such a litter would be a possible control litter to see what is in the lines. For a novice breeder, stay away from that. If you want pups that will be good home protectors and family dogs, can do the work, go with an outcross breeding that is compatible. Working lines, no show lines (though you have some show lines back there, but if you like this dog you will not like the results of a mating with a show line bitch). I would even go as far as saying that a part DDR/part West German working line bitch would work nicely here. If you keep a bitch for breeding out of your male, then you cannot use your own male as stud for her in the future. So if you want to set up a breeding program in which you use your own male as stud, you need an unrelated bitch. If your friend is willing to use this dog as a stud on one of his bitches, it will give you a chance to see what he produces. You may not want to use him again after that or you may really like what he produces. Though one litter really does not tell you much. Breeding is trying and learning from every litter. No breeder can predict the outcome, regardless of how many litters they already have under their belt. Many newbies get lucky (ie Asko Lutter), many more do not. First, get some general books on breeding. Learn about it, make sure your dog is up to snuff, and try to keep an open mind and be able to critique your own dog as if it was someone elses. That will help you keep a healthy perspective on things.

The book 'The Total German Shepherd' is a good book but a little wordy so you may be asking what half of it means or checking a dictionary.

I know Mike & keep track of a lot of Brawnson progeny...as we have 2 Brawnson kids (our own breeding) and I used to own another out of a Czech bitch. I will say this, first and foremost, make sure that you get the dog OFA & OFEL certified before you even consider breeding. Now, would I breed a dog that's 2-2 on Brawnson to a female that was either a daughter or granddaughter of Brawnson's? No. For a few reasons, but the main being that you're not an experienced breeder and you mentioned pets. My suggestion would be that if you're serious about wanting to breed (and for something other than just pets), then start doing research on breeding, GSD bloodlines, and find a mentor or two (three or four wouldn't hurt).