STUD QUALIFICATIONS - Page 1

What qualifications do (you) breeders look for in a stud dog?  I notice almost all breeders (gsd) use studs that have SCH titles+ great hip ratings.  Would you use a stud with PSA or French ring titles instead of SCH??  If the stud has PSA or French Ring titles but in the pedigree no famous or familiar bloodlines, would you still use him?  Does the pedigree matter if the dog has titles?  What actually makes you pick a stud to use in the breeding program?  If a dog doesn't have titles but  is a excellent worker would you still use him?  Just wanted to hear breeders thought on why and how they pick studs.  I notice many are advertise on the Stud page but are they ever actually used??

 NORBO BENJU klodo CHULIGAN Z POHRANICNI STRAZE

Stud must improve the line. Must produce himself or better with most females. Must have good record in that. Must be super representative of the breed. Structure and temperament must be pronounced (much better then average). His littermates should be also outstanding in hips and workability. Tytles are plus. PSA and French ring are super SchH is good but not necessary sign of quality. Kk breedsurvey and so on are all plus but in my book not necessary if you are honest. Stud must make your jaw drop in looks, courage, presence, drive , discriminativnes, confidence. His ancestors should be known for the same. Also since there are no perfect dog you should know his faults and know how to compensate for them.
Above som epictures of legendary studs:
Norbo benju
Klodo von Boxberg
 Chuligan z pohranicni straze.
Prager
http://www.alpinek9.com

Thats the thing Pager most breeders won't use a stud unless they see SCH titles and familiar bloodlines in a pedigree.  If someone is a nobody and has a awesome stud dog, who has PSA or French Ring titles but not familiar bloodlines (Famous) in the dogs pedigree..would you still use the dog as a stud to your breeding program or would you turn the other cheek?

A dog can have all you mention above but I notice breeders just stick with kennels that have a name (popular) for themselves.  Why don't they broaden their horizons?  I've been told by many that SCH is too easy.  Why don't gsd breeders compete their dogs in PSA?  I would think breeders would want to test the dogs besides just looking at what titles a dog has.  If I was a breeder I would like a real dog over a sport dog who knows routines( I know the 3 listed are sports but one is more gear to real life scenarios).  I would like to challenge my dog to do  other sports that people think gsd wouldn't be able to excel in.  I would think that dog would be more valuable (in the breed) in my opinion vs a common dog with a SCH title.

I completely agree RDH. To me each of our beloved working breeds right now that are common (d.s., mal, gsd) are all shepherd dogs developed for a variety of purposes. These dogs were breed to herd, guard, track, protect, family companion, draft workers, etc. These dogs were meant to be all around working dogs. I believe that if you have a great example of the breed it should be excelling in more than one major role or sport. Dual purpose police K9's say alot for themselves. They are expected to guard and deter for the officers benefit, discriminate scents, track and aprehend perp., be loyal family companions to the officer and his family, etc. Sports do not always focus on the overall working ability so I do believe the more sports one can excel in especially with a breed on the fall like the gsd will say alot more. I completely agree with Prager that the parents should produce well consistently and the considered studs siblings would be high quality working dogs with good health and temperament as well. I too agree with the same traits that he looks for, people jaws should drop when testing the dog and observing the dog. The point of breeding any breed is to make an overall betterment to the gene pool. If you breed an outstanding dog 2-3 times and each flops.... chances are as outstanding as that dog is he may not have the ability to pass his qualities. Therefore he should not be a stud. Far too often people do not look outside of famous bloodlines because they are familiar with what those lines have produce so they are eliminating the risk of a bad breeding. The term dont fix what aint broke. If they are successful breeding with these lines why would they need to consider different ones? Thanks for the topic hopefully more post. Have a great day to both of you! Amanda

Because not a lot of GSD's can do well in PSA ;) would you want your stud to look bad ;) lol hahahahaha I will pick PSA GSD or French Ring over SCH any time ;) 

Look I am talking Genetics here. I am not going to get involved in this thread with sport x work and what breed is better, except that I will say that ALL sports promote mainly prey drive. EVEN PSA. If I breed I am not interested ONLY in a prey  drive. I have been involved in PSA and I love PSA. BUT  sport dogs compensate often for lack of courage by super high prey drive. That is not what I would want to do if I breed a GSD. I need to see true courage in situation where dog is alone in unfamiliar environment and under escalating and unfamiliar  stress/threat  to his well being, where there is
NO PREY (!!!!!!!)DRIVE INVOLVED. 90% malinois  (and many shepherds) which excel in sport , will fail such test. That is my experience. I am just saying this because I am tired of hearing of superiority of BM in sports.
          Also to answer question about breeding unfamiliar lines: If you see a dog which is from unfamiliar lines and he is great and you think that you would like to breed to him. Do your home work:
1.look at his litter mates
2.look at his parents, grand parents and so on,... and their litter mates as far as possible.
3. and look at what is such dog producing himself with different females. Proof is in the pudding after all.
People are using familiar lines because they are lazy to do such work and also they are victims of fads. Yes bloodlines could be more or less sexy.  Also pups with "sexy" lines sell better for more money.  But people vote with their dollar and maybe this unfamiliar stud may became sexy too.:) If you see an unfamiliar, but great dog it is a good idea to see if he is worth breeding. Also ask your self why is this line unfamiliar there may be a good reason for it. But if you discover something worth while then that would be great for the sake of the breed.   But be honest and remove all blinders from your eyes before you breed him (her).

Pictures in my former post are of studs which excelled in sports and work and produced many work dogs. 
Prager(Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com

 

lol Snajper69 my future dog will be doing PSA.  I rather do PSA or french ring before SCH any day.  I guess I'm more into the real life stuff vs routine supports.  French ring is interesting because of the control and how athletic the dog must be to finish such a sport.  I went to my first French Ring trial and the dogs blew me away!! Even though it was all Malinois and Dutch Shepherds.  The guy hosting it was pretty cool and informative. I told him I would like to be the 1st german shepherd person to go all the way basically.....who knows.  Man, I can't believe how much time, money, and dedication it takes to trial a dog. GEEZ!

Prager you said your talking genetics here.  If a dog completes the above sports (PSA3, FR3) wouldn't that mean that he has the genetics in him to do so? (I'm not a dog breeder so I don't know much on that aspect, just trying to get a firm understanding)

Patriot---I believe that if you have a great example of the breed it should be excelling in more than one major role or sport. I agree with that 100% especially if the breeder gets a title(s) in a sport that they know their breed is meant to excel in. ex. gsd--SCH, malinois--french ring, dutchie (KNPV although it included malinois as well). 


Titles are a plus but I don't feel that they make up the dog.  I don't think dogs should be bred based on titles either.  I think a great dog (stud) should be more than just sports.....it should be more of a all around dog.



Patriot Amanda--CONGRATS ON YOUR BREVET AND FRENCH RING 1 TITLE, CAN'T WAIT TO SEE YOU GET RING 2 AT THE END OF THE MONTH!!!

Yes such dog has genes for it. But there is more to the dog then Sport AND PREY DRIVE.  Do not forget the other; like courage in defensive situation, herding instinct, air scenting abilities and so on none of these are tested in sports and many others too. Please reread my last entry.

Prager(Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com