Anyone ever try a Gentle Leader on a SchH Dog? - Page 1

My wife and I own 2 pre-titled dogs. Hers is a SchH3 female form Germany. The dog is normally very, very mild mannered - but when she goes into prey drive (around squirrels, cats, small dogs) it is almost impossible to control her. The female is 75 pounds and my drivey 95lb male is easier to hold then her when she is worked up. Anyhow, it happen again last night - wife was walking the female after dark, cat runs across street almost 100 yards away (out of sight until too late due to the dark) and she is almost face planted as the dog (on fur-saver) chases off after the cat. The short of it was that my wife, who already has a bad back, had it really wretched and is now in severe pain. In a nutshell this needs to stop ASAP - but on the other hand she (the wife) DOES NOT approve of or want to use a prong. My wife has trained full-grown mastiffs to not pull using the traditional methods (with no prong) and is adamantly opposed to them – despite all of the data about neck/throat damage/testimonials, etc about the value of the prong. Of course she wasn't dealing with a drivy dogs either... I don't want to get into too much convo on the merits of a prong - because I'm in the choir. I just can't convince her. So to cut to the chase - does anyone use (or has anyone tried) the gentle leader/halter style solutions? We really need something that will work for normal everyday dog walks. The fur saver is useless and the prong is out. This is only an issue on walks and frankly only occurs once a month or so (based on the randomness of an encounter with small furry creatures) and normally the dog walks fine the rest of the time. It really sucks because she is a great girl - but the wife cannot get here back yanked out every couple of weeks because about 20-30 days the dog explodes after something. Thanks for any help, -Calvin

I had tried a gentle leader on my Lab, I have 2 sheps that are sch trained. My experience is that the gentle leader prevents, but does not correct pulling or train them to heel. The best way to see if it works though is to try it. They don't cost too much and may be worth it if you think it would work and is your only option. I think the gentle leader dogs will still pull if they have the chance and could still hurt your wife if she pulls away. It is like a halter on a horse, and horses can get away too if frightened or want to bolt. I guess this isn't really any help for you, sorry that I can't give you a definate answer. Oh and as for my lab that my mom had on a gentle leader, he is now an obedience and agility comp dog working off a flat collar, he started on choke and sometimes prong, now can heel perfectly on flat. My GSD is also prey driven and I used a prong for biking, she can now bike with a flat collar and doesn't react to things like she used to and won't go after cats, squirrels, etc anymore because she was corrected with the prong. I'm a big believer in adjusting training methods for the dog. Not all dogs require electric or prong collars and work great on a choke chain (I'm the only one in my training club on a choke) and other dogs NEED a prong or a choke. I wish you and your wife the best of luck. Elizabeth

I have never used a gentle leader for training a heal...I have used it to get the dog to have its head in the correct possision and then with clicker training taught the dog to heal with very nice focus. I did see a dog on a leader and he went after another dog playing with a toy....his owner was not paying attention and the dog took off at a full run hit the end of the line jerked his face back and flug his body past the head and broke his leg in half...it was horriable. So I would be very carefull with these as the dog could get very hurt.. Heather

I tried a gentle leader yrs ago on my male GSD before I got into dog training and he did absolutley no good for me. I tried it about four times before I gave up and went a joined a club. He fought the gentle leader like a caged lion. HE would litterally rip the skin off of his nose trying to get it off. The minute I went to training and somebody handed me a pinch training was a piece of cake. Like was stated above you can try it and see what results you get but it didn't work for me. It did work on my wife's lab mix though.

ask your wife how it feels to have her back twisted or whipped around. that is exactly what will happen to that dog's neck if she takes off after a cat or a squirrel. gentle leaders and haltis are suitable for babies and youngsters when there will be NO corrections made, self-imposed or otherwise. "headgear" is not suitable for high prey dogs. even though they look harmless, these thin little straps around a dog's head and muzzle can produce tons of damage. i would also mention that a prong collar will improve the manners and handling of the dog, not to mention increased safety. a dog on the loose, chasing a cat and on-coming traffic......well you get the picture.

I also have used a Gentle Leader and have them in every size in a cabinet somewhere. These stories remind me of a show female I had several years ago and she like the other dog fought it until we were both bleeding - her nose and my arm... it was all about the device and getting it off and not about the behavior I was trying to create. I then sat with a clicker until she was putting her face in and out of it, like it was her idea... it became less of a problem in that respect but she was totally willing to lunge and jump and in short, rip her own head off with the thing and I found myself being moved all around trying to prevent her from doing this.. so I said, to heck with that and went back to my pinch collar - which worked like a charm and we never had any other trouble... Many people have your wifes opinion that the pinch is torturous, etc but what is her back telling her now?? With a correctly sized and fitted pinch, there is really little need for much wrenching of any bodyparts because the dog corrects itself. I would suggest working on some focus and checking in when going on leash walks and your wife must be very vigilant and see all that is around so she can prevent this... OR - you take the female andlet her take the male who seems to be a bit more docile about walking on a leash... I have also seen very good success with the electric collar, many pet clients ask for it specifically and in all honesty we do it because the alternative (ie dog getting runover) is not pleasant so the dog learns to come when called no matter what.... Good luck

if a Halti is used properly it is a great tool. I cringe when I see people walk their dogs with just a Halti though. It should be used ***in conjuction to a regular collar with its own leash***, or a 2 meter leash with a clip at each end (what I use). Then apply the Halti only when actually needed. Or if things happen quickly and the dog runs into the leash you automatically have it both on collar and on Halti, giving that extra bit of control. When you control the head, you control the rest of the body. The dog has very little force to put against it. You can lead and direct a horse by a head halter, but not from the neck. It pulls wagons with its neck. Applies the 1HP with its neck. It can't do the same from the head. Any horse that has been properly halter broke will most likely never break out of that halter, and will at least will remain more managable compared to just having a strap around their neck. I have been a rider for 30 years, been training "drivey" horses (polo ponies) for over 15 years, have worked at the race track. The principle works - if applied properly. The leg injury described above could just as easily have happened if the dog had pivoted around its neck on the regular collar when it came to the end of its lead. It also indicates that this dog had never been trained to accept the limits of a Halti. Most people just put the Halti on and think the dog is going to work it out by itself. Luckily I received some proper instruction before using it. Most people don't bother and then wonder why it does not work for them. First comes proper fitting. Most are put on too loose and the dog has it off in an instance. If the dog has had success to take it off once, its focus will be on getting it off, rather than accepting it. Better to put it on too tight in the beginning, then once the dog has learned the ins and outs, it can be loosened so that it still fits securely, but more comfortably. The dog needs to be accustomed to the new equipment in a safe and familiar surrounding like the back yard. Once it works properly there, it can be taken on the road. When a correction comes it has to be done with full consequence, nothing half hearted. In short, if that was my dog we would have this discussion once and only once. I don't use the Halti much. Usually when I have several dogs to walk from a to b with many distractions on the way. It does work great and gives so much more control. A dog that pulls constantly can now be led by 2 fingers literally. I have never had a problem with it and can highly recommend it. For every day use, I prefer a martingale type collar that has a chain between the nylon part. It it set so that when placed high on the dogs neck right behind the ears it is tight, with the rings barely touching. This way you get a very slight but controllable chocking action when the collar rest in normal position lower on the neck and you need to apply a correction. When the collar is then tightened it gets very snug without hurting muscles, ligaments etc. The sound of the chain when the collar is engaged usually gets the dogs attention too. The rest of the time the collar is loose. They are available in metal as well, though harder to find that way. Pulling like that is dangerous. To the handler of the dog because of possible injuries, and it can easily get a dog killed if it breaks loose and runs in front of a car or such. Your wife could get more seriously hurt than she already is. Every time this dog has success with this behaviour it will make it harder to break her of it. It is becoming a self rewarding situation for the dog. Prey = chase = breaking loose = successfull chase. This can only get worse. Whatever you decide, your wife has to make a decision - for her own sake - to take charge of the situation before this turns into a sad story. Sometimes a little discomfort from a prong is better than being run over by a car, or your wife in a neck brace.

I have certain physcial limitations when handling my dogs and use an e-collar (a Dogtra 1200 NCP) on my males when walking them off leash where there are many rabbits. If I were to use a prong collar on these guys, it would essentially amount to "nagging". If you should explore the idea of using an e-collar, be sure to consult with an "expert" (not just someone who thinks he is) before using it. I always use the lowest level of stimulation required to elicit the correct behavior. Now, when my dog spies a rabbit, I just say "leave it--wait". The dog stands there staring intently at the running rabbit with one foreleg elevated and tucked under him (like a pointer). Then, I call the dog to me and say "good leave it" and him lots of strokes, verbal praise, and a food tidbit. While my dogs continue to wear e-collars during these off lead walks in the country, I never have to give them a reminder "nick". At the park, without using an e-collar, I just tell the dogs to "platz" when tempted to chase a dog. Their obedience is absolute--they drop on a dime. Louise