which color is more desired - Page 1

of the working dogs which coloer is more desired and can one breed a working dog with a show dog and what colors do you get then

Color is not a major concern among working dog handlers and breeders as it is within the showline groups. In the working aspect of the breed, a good dog is a good dog regardless of whether it is sable, black & tan, bicolor, or black. The breed is limited to certain color patterns, which are present in all factions (though you rarely see sable or black or bicolor showline dogs, they do exist). So the possible colors are sable, black & tan, bicolor, black, or white (if both dogs possess the masking gene).

i have heard some breed the working dog back into or into the showline for the drive is this so and does it work out well

Mike, Great summary of the color combos - but people are biased. It's a shame that there are NO BI-COLORS AND NO SABLES IN THE TOP V AND VA Ranks. I can't help but think that this is as a result of 20 years of judges predjudices - overlooking the good dog - because it's not a color preference they have - and it was done so much that now there are none - and it will be difficult to intergrate these colors back into the gene pool of the top show lines -- The SV will have to put up several good sables, for example if anyone is to breed to them !! When one of my puppy buyers took a solid black puppy into the vet - the receptionist caused a big flap because she was quick to tell my people that their puppy couldn't be a purebred GSD BECAUSE THE DON'T COME IN BLACK !! My client called me crying on the phone - she apparently forgot the two hour conversation we had about colors as that litter was sables and solid blacks !!

how interesting you say this because i have a beautiful i mean just because sable 2 weeks ago and i have heard nothing but what kind of dog is taht ? is that a purebreed? thats a mix huh? it just drives me nuts but i understand ingnorence however i am concerned that if i breed this type they will be more likely to end up in the pound and other places if they are sold to pet home or that they will be more difficult to sell so im am thinking against it. it just seems that this working class sell for less and gets discrimnated against by the show people like they roll there eyes at these beautiful lines dont get it have you had any of these issues

Champ v Dakota is a sable and did/does well in shows.

As a person who has done this exact thing that you are asking... yes htere is prejudice on both sides of discipline - show and working irregardless of the colour. I have a V rated Sch 3 IPO 3 6x black and red female who goes back 8 times line bred to Anderl v Kleinen Pfhal and Assie (littermate) and is concidered the foundation of working dogs. But because she is v rated, pretty and red they classify her as a show dog. She is not overly angulated but has a good stride but has crushing grips and a full bite, and didn't always want to out. :) I bred her to a very good strong bi-colour Sch 2 Quasy son who has Timmy on the bottom and ended up with some absolutely wonderful pups. I kept two for myself male and female and not a single Schutzhund person bought one nor did a person interested in show. They went as working Narcotics and police dog in Asia and a couple to pet homes. So even though everyone liked the male and female individually not one would buy their pups. The female is over 9 now and in fabulous health, still training. They were all blk and red with two bi-colours. Anyone interested in doing this must do it for themselves and not for commercial value.

exactly - One of our early litters was from an Andrel KleinenPfhal son -- bred with herding lines and we had wonderful pups. We also bred to two or three sable stud dogs - and IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO SELL SABLE PUPS as Companions -- Even after you educate - people are still afraid they are half wolf or mixed breed - it's so stupid. I know breeders who would not breed at all if they had to use a sable dog or bitch -- for that reason - they don't feel they can sell the pups ! It is actually easier to sell solid black or even WHITE (God -- hope we never have any of those !) We have had many many dark bi-colors - and it is our preferred color - but again - people think they are mixed with Dobermans or something stupid like that. We don't breed anymore - and if we do in the future - as you say - it will be to keep our own -- and as in the past - we will donate some to drug/bomb detection etc. as they are appreciated there - regardless of color. Shame on the SV for allowing the colors to get into such a corner !! There are only a handful of people who think it's good to make the working dogs prettier and the show dogs smarter -- but there needs to be more. My imported dogs have 13 generations of HGH AND SCHH titles and they are both sired by top V Show Males - who also have SCHH III AND IPO III -- It can be done !!

For more information--a really excellent discussion by a well-known showline breeder, go to the vom arlett website (www.arlett.de) and click on "sables" in both English and German. I found it really fascinating.

Ginabean, I've read that page before and I have to say that the info is not entirely correct. It needs a really good revising, that's for sure. I applaud the efforts put into it on that page, however it states things as fact that are just not true or impossible and anyone that understands genetics, heredity, and color in the GSD breed can point out the flaws readily. It would be a very long post on what's wrong on that page, so I will not go into it right now.