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by Makosh on 02 November 2004 - 17:11

Are WDA Events recognized by USA of SV? That is, if my dog gets BH at WDA Trial, will be in her USA score book? (She is USA registered)

by Kougar on 02 November 2004 - 17:11

USA Scorebook - SV judge recognized no matter who holds trial. NOT SV foreign - ie, Bogdan Sergo - or WDA judges. ONLY SV judge. Interestingly, if you want to do a koering at a WDA show, using a WDA book and a WDA judge for AD, BH voids those and you cannot do your koering!! In USA, you can koer with any title being done under a USA judge. I could not go to koer a dog in a WDA show because the AD was by a USA judge.

by Klossbruhe on 02 November 2004 - 20:11

Having served on the Executive Board of the GSDCA-WDA, being a USCA member and running a schutzhund club, I have had to keep abreast of this situation. The USCA and WDA are not getting along and USCA in particular has decided to force people to only trial and show at USCA events. WDA is not retaliating. The correct answer is as follows: all performance (i.e. BH, AD, SchH and IPO)titles by SV judges, INCLUDING SV FOREIGN JUDGES, (such as Bogdan Sergo or David Landau) are recognized by the SV if you take your dog to Germany. Performance titles by WDA judges (such as Mike West) are not recognized by the SV in Germany. Although USCA claims that performance of USA judges are recognized, many people have found out otherwise in Germany. Meanwhile in the US, USCA has said it will not recognize titles in any WDA scorebook. However, the SV warned USA that it must accept all titles from SV judges, including SV Foreign judges in WDA scorebooks or the SV will fine USCA. As of this writing, USCA is complying with this SV order. However, you never know. The WDA is not taking this petty approach. All titles in USCA scorebooks are acceptable. My advice is to join both and get 2 scorebooks and only trial under SV or SV foreign judges. , the WDA will accept any title in a USCA scorebook

by hodie on 03 November 2004 - 00:11

Klossbruhe is correct about the situation with titles and scorebooks. However, I have recently heard that Mr. Sergo's license as an SV Foreign Judge has been revoked. Can anyone confirm this? I also agree with Klossbruhe that the pettiness of the United Schutzhund Clubs as concerns WDA is just that, and does nothing to help anyone. This is exactly why I plan to do just as is suggested: have two scorebooks if I plan to enter a WDA event and I only trial or have SV judges for events in our club. As for the SV sanctioning or fining the United Schutzhund Clubs of America, I will believe that when I see it. Sadly, if they did, that would even more provide fodder for those in the USA who feel this organization should split from the SV. That, in my opinion makes no sense and if it should happen, I would not continue my USA membership.

by Klossbruhe on 03 November 2004 - 02:11

To Hodie---I know that there is some sort of action being considered against Mr. Sergo. It has to do with a violation of SV rules as to holding a trial. I would really prefer not to go into it especially because there is a lot of false rumor going around and the action against him may also be politically motivated. He has made a lot of enemies lately during the brief time he served as training director of the WDA. I will say that what he did was foolish, at the very least a lapse in judgment. It could have been avoided too. Still I don't think he will lose his license, at least permanently. He may have sanctions imposed on him stopping him from judging for 6 months or a year. Or maybe nothing. What he did was reported, not by his friends, to the to the GSDCA-WDA and now the SV so now the administrative wheels are grinding.

by hodie on 03 November 2004 - 03:11

Thanks Klossbruhe...... rumors are best left out, I agree. I met him once and found him very friendly and helpful. But all the politics that abound leave me cold....

by Kougar on 03 November 2004 - 07:11

Well- when I wanted to koer a dog at a WDA show whose AD was done by a USA judge, I was advised by a Director of the WDA - twice - as she went to a meeting and confirmed the info - that not only did the AD have to be repeated under an SV judge, but that if I had done it at a WDA trial under a WDA non SV judge, it still would not be recognized for a koering. This was for a show in Kentucky last summer, and the director was in Kentucky as well. I was told specifically that to stand for a koer, ALL titles had to be earned under an SV judge, not a USA, not a WDA, not a foreign SV judge.

by Klossbruhe on 03 November 2004 - 11:11

Koering is only recognized when done by SV judges. As a preliminary to being koered, the dog must have an AD, BH and either a SchH or IPO title. As I wrote earlier, the SV does not recognize performance titles received under WDA or USCA judges unless they are also SV Foreign or full SV judges. However, I have heard from USCA board members that under a special arrangement with the SV, the SV does recognize performance titles from USCA judges. I cannot vouch for this claim and have in my personal experience found the opposite to be true. I trialed in Germany with a dog that I brought over from the US which had got its SchH1 under a USCA judge. The trial of the club secretary said the title wasn't valid. At my behest, he consulted various people in the SV administration and was told I could not compete for a SchH2 because the SchH1 title was not recognized. I then re-did the SchH1 before I could do the SchH2. Moral of story, if you want to be safe, do your performance titles with SV judges. (It is my understanding that performance titles obtained from DVG judges in the US are also recognized by the SV.)

by Sue DiCero on 03 November 2004 - 15:11

My female's BH and SCH1 is under a USA judge,AD under a SV judge and show rating/koer was under a SV judge. I am not registering a litter or competing in Germany, so any argument to that is a moot point. Husband's dogs compete under SV judges and USA judges, and he competes in Europe with no issue.

by Sue DiCero on 03 November 2004 - 15:11

And I would check with each office, not with members as there is a lot of confusion and mis-information out there in regards to this issue.





 


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