Vote for work or show - Page 2

if i had a doller evry time i heard some one say real gsd is lost or we need to improve the breed,i would be a very rich man.for those who say i am breeding to improve the breed stop breeding you would help a lot because too many people breeding gsd out there.the only thing that is wriong with the breed is human beings.for those who say they can not find a real gsd,you either do not know what you are looking for or do not know where to look for.Gsd was and is a versatile breed and you can find one to fit every need.there is nothing unreal about german shepherd dog. however, there are about 99% of the people with german sheperds who are terrible trainers and handlers and do not know how to thje right thing when raising shepherds and do not put the dog first.me included ,but i do make a real effert evry day to to learn to do the right thing.do not blame your dogs for your own shortcommings.I can go on and on but why.think smart ones get the idea.

To each his own...Do what makes you and your dog happy.

There is nothing more beautiful then a German Shepherd that can work and is nice looking...but the first thing is how they can work...they are a breed that was developed to be a working dog...and a German Shepherd that can work is has nice looking conformation is a sight to behold...

Most Showline German Shepherds can't do the work....And I'm not talking only about Schutzhund...I'm talking about any kind of work...There are some Showline GSD's that can work and it's great....but the breed was first developed to WORK....and without this they AIN'T NOTHING...

~Bob~

Artaths, you trying to compare apples to oranges here. There are many "workingline" dogs out there with a V/ VA conformation. You have to understand how the "showline" dog emerged, and what the judges are looking for in the ring.

I can understand your ideal picture of the GSD. But thats not going to happen. Unless you try yourself to breed for it and are prepared for a lot of disappointments. Both lines go through a different type of development structure wise. Also, you wont be able to do the same work with showlines than you do with workinglines. Showlines are physicaly limited today. After an hour of work they are walking on their tongues or are about to fall over. This is not as much of an endurance thing but a more structural thing. The slope of the back gives a nice angulation of the rear, basical they have to carry the rear low. This makes them walk more or less on their hocks with a nice looking under step. So, now put that dog in motion, what happen is that they require much more push from the hindlegs to get them moving. They have to put much more energy into the gait then a working line dog. Imagine you would have to run halfway squatting, same principle.

But this extra push, or called rear drive, makes them look good once they are going, and they are covering alot of ground. Thats exactly what a show judge is looking for. Many of the show line dogs have weak hocks, as well are cow hocked to keep their balance. You can identify the weak hocks when looking at the dog gaiting from behind. The dog will roll the hocks outward, making it look like walking on eggs. So even with an a-stamp on hips or good elbows, it does not mean that you wont have trouble jointwise. You wont see showline dogs doing actual K9 work besides their SCHH titles because they are just structure wise unable to do it on a daily basis.

Workingline dogs, meaning black or tan sables, are often missunderstood in a show ring. You somewhat have to watch for the judges preferences. The gaiting part looks often more stiff and higher of the ground then in showlines. But this again is because of the structure. They dont walk on their hocks because they carry their rear higher. So their push comes alot from their toes and pastures requirering much less energy. You can traine this dogs for a better understep and angulation, therefore training a better drive out of the rear. Kind of like one would do with a horse to get a better under-swing of the hind. The working dog is structural able to work the whole day. And this is the dog that can jump a 8 foot straight wall. Try that with a show line!

SharpDawg...I absolutely agree with you...but you must also do what good for the dog...and that is to have a sound dog...I have nothing against Showline dogs....I only have a problem when the dogs can't do what they were meant to do...I think that the Showline folks should be breeding dogs that look good...and show well...but their first priority is how they look...not how well they can work...I'm very sorry that the Showline people's priority is LOOKS...and not Performance...I also have a Australian Cattle Dog..and she is very nice looking...but she will definitely do the work...So far there isn't much difference in the Working and the Show lines...as a matter of fact there isn't any difference at all...it's all one and the same breed and line...

If the Showline German Shepherd people would concern themselves with how well the dog performs and then how well they look...we proabably wouldn't be having this discussion...

~Bob~

Incubus, its not the breed standard that calls for a spring cleaning. Its the SV and the judges who interpret the standard to their own understanding. But there are motions in work, another Verein is emerging in Germany, but it probably will take a few years for it to be fully established and recognized with its own registry and Koermeisters.

BTW, sables are fully recognized, they just usual place at the end of the line. Politics play a major role in a show, as well as the judges preference. Researching the judges and placements from previous shows gives you a good idea what the judge prefers.

Q man, you have to understand though some people have no idea of what a sound dog means or even want to know.  I am always for a well balanced working dog but thats just me.  How good a dog looks can be subjective it is all in the eye of the beholder.  This question of show and work will always be around in the GSD world.

That is hard thing to vote for. I would have to go with the showline side for now. The reason being is my male can bite and then can play with a 4 year old. Then again it is my dog. Why would anyone choose another dog over their own? I would pick a workingline if I own one too, just because it would be my dog. Dogs to me are family first, then pet.

I will be honest tho. I enjoy doing the sport with my showline. He does get tired out before the working lines do. I did watch a show ring this past weekend and thought it was totally different from what I have been exposed to in the past. I think I would like the whole mix.

Showline or working,....if you have a dog that you love and they can be turn on and off with no problems,.....then that is 100% awesome in my mind.

Now you guys can shoot me,

John Kennedy