What would you do? - Page 3

Personally I believe it is VERY important - for the sake of your son, that you help him  VANQUISH these enemies.

Talk to your lawyer. Tell him to help you with a game plan -the desired goal of which is to make the club force those guys to leave.

The club will not probably take this action because it is RIGHT but they might if they feel the liability of NOT KICKING THEM OUT will be to risky.

Play your cards right and you will have taught your son multiple valuable lessons.

1- Do not react in the heat of the moment

2- Stand up for yourself and fight back (in a way that is likely to lead to success)

3- Rewards for battles well fought might take an investment of time

4- Using resources (like lawyers) are worth it - if they are likely to add significantly to the odds for a successful outcome.

If you must - take  these guys to smalls claims court - for the damages for the loss of the club, etc.....

Do not give up - you ask as much from your dogs - ask it from yourself

Good luck!

I have nothing to add except to say those two jerks (they sure aren't men) involved and every member of your club that is aware of how your son was treated yet has done nothing to sanction those guys should be ashamed of themselves.  What a horrible experience for your son and what miserable excuses for human beings.

Was this physical attack on your son in anyway sexual?  I am assuming not or you would have mentioned such.  But if it was that changes the whole situation.  If it was the man pushing your son down on the bed may have a prior arrest record for a sexual offense and may now actually be a registered sexual offender, since the repeat rate is high.  Unless your son has actual bruises it's your son's word against them, and that is an uphill battle, unless they have prior arrests for assault or long criminal rap sheets. 

From what you have stated it's best to find a new club.  If they do show up at your place call the cops imediately and assume they are coming to assault you or your son and harm you.  I suggest you consider establishing a response plan for that occurrence if it seems possible.   

Acting out by these kinds of insect brains may occur only after excessive consumption of alcohol.  Sometimes it's better to just file a police report and talk to the club officers and then walk away.  If the club officers also have insect brains, don't waste you breath on them, because they would be incapable of acting responsibly either.  Also, a fair percentage of seasoned UFC fighters may have mental disorders from  'roid abuse and frontal lobe trauma from too many damaging blows.  Both of these problems can create overaggressiveness and poor impulse control.  Add alcohol to this and you have a formula for violent outbursts.  A significant number of these folks get "punch drunk" and will end up like Cassius Clay when they get old, developing parkinson's disease, or heart valve and heart damage from the 'roids.  What goes around comes around, and these insects brains will certainly see some bad times ahead for themselves.  Most folks like this end up getting blind sided by reality at some point, because it catches up with them eventually in most cases.  It's a good lesson for your son and you to learn how to identify insect brained degenerates and stay clear of them.  If you do get them kicked out of the club, it may not be worth it if they get drunked up and crazy and try to follow through on their threat to assault your son.  Sometimes it's just better to walk away.

I'm not familiar with UFC fighting. However, if this a considered a professional sport would that also mean that the players are like professional boxers and their fists considered deadly weapons? If so that would most likely put this in a whole other catagory assuming the fighter was the one who physically attacked your son. Good idea to see an attorney. I wouldn't let it drop and am shocked to think that any club would even want helpers like these 2. 

Two Moons, you are an idiot to suggest that anyone other than the 2 who abused this kid is at fault.

In the long run only you and your son can decide what is right for him.  But please do let him know that it's not his fault, those two  germs are not how people behave to each other.   Let him know that nobody condones that type of behavior, except maybe the germs themselves and other germs like them.

Good luck and sending good thoughts to you both.  And BTW, you may want to consider a few counciling sessions for him to help him understand and not leaves scars for later.  Nothing wrong with him seeing a councilor to talk things through.

Read over your club's by-laws very carefully. I'm sure most of them say something about treating other members approriately. Sounds like your 18 year old son was the only adult on that trip. What a pair of scumbags.

Greatestgsd, you can still file a police report and secure assault charges against the one guy.  You will have to go back to the jurisdiction where it ocurred to file a report.  You will not be able to file a report with your local PD, it has to be through the PD where the offense happened.  In Virginia you have up to a year to secure misdemeanor charges against someone, 2 years for a felony.  I don't know the laws in NC but I'm sure it is similar.  If you decide to follow up with a report, which you could probably do over the phone; get all the info on these 2 guys you can, names, addresses, DOB, phone numbers.  This will make filing the report easier.  You will also need this info if you decide to secure charges.   

You mentioned in your original post that you had a conversation with both guys about the incident, document everything that they said.  Any statements made to you are completely admissable in court, as the guys were not under arrest, Miranda is not needed and this is not heresay.  Your son also needs to write down in detail everything that happened.  You both should document dates and times of everything that happened.  Do this before you contact the police to file the report so you have all of your facts together.  

You do not need to get a lawyer to do this.  In fact, you can probably call the District Attorney's office in that locality and they can offer you assistance.  If you do decide to follow up on this:  DO NOT TELL THE TWO GUYS YOU ARE DOING THIS.  Do not tell anyone else in the club either.  Let the guy get arrested and let it be a surprise.  Are you also living in NC or another state?  This will have a bearing on extradition if the guy is arrested.  NC will probably not extradite form other other states for a misdemeanor assault.

Last, but not least I would find a new club to train at.  

Jim

Preston, you said what I held back in my first post; that there was possibly an abhorrent sexual motive behind this assault. That is a severe statement to make but this is a severe issue. If the son in this discussion had been intoxicated when this occurred I would see it very differently. But I see it for what I think it is-two (2) older, intoxicated  men with more than simple assault on their minds on in their pasts.

I am perhaps too "old school" when it comes to my ideas of personal justice; I just have my past experiences as a guide to what works with certain individuals. I do think that a police report is duely appropriate, and I would do as Jim advised and start looking for another club. The police report at best will cost $2.00 or $3.00, and the call to the prosecuting attourney's office will be cheap as well. How you succeed past that pont is up to the local authourities and your own perserverence.

The son in this case is eighteen (18) years old-he is still a child in our world. The alleged assailants are clearly two (2) adults each possessing a bully mentality. Can't blame it on the booze-the intent was there all along. If the prosecutor will not levy more than simple assault charges, then that is the most that can be done. But, an assault charge on one's record can have severe consequences in the future in regards to employment, etc..

I agree with another poster that you should keep this to yourself until (and if) the prosecutor makes charges and the police make arrests. These guys sound like the type of people that like to "get even" so I would keep some distance. And don't blame this solely on geography, as there are "good ole boy" mindsets in more than one (1) Schutzhund sport club out there that would prefer to just let this drop and do nothing about it.

If you choose to press charges, are successful, and after the legal judgement has been made; if the club's leadership does not act appropriately, then you should come back here and tell everyone about it. The mention of this type of crime does belong on this messageboard. We need to keep the thugs, rednecks, and knuckleheads out of our sport.

Regards,

Bob-O

If I thought this had anything to do with it being "sexual" I would not be here typing on this board, cause I would be in jail for murder! It boils down to 2 grown adults acting like 16 year olds with no common sense! I think Preston hit the nail on the head, with regards to the one that was a UFC fighter. The other one is just a jackass! I am going to a Sch. club on Tuesday that is a little farther away, but maybe the people there won't have the same kind of a attiude as the other 2 guys. I am hoping all will work out there.

I would file a complaint with the organization you are with (DVG, USA, WDA) see if you can get him suspended or ejected from the club, surely with this guy being new you can get the club president/officers to do something.  If he would harm your child think what he might do to your dog.......I would never let him work my dog!!  We don't need people like him in this sport.  Would you please PM me and tell me who this person is and where/what club he is affiliated with....I would like to avoid him!

I would then file a restraining order against this man and press charges against him for assault and battery, if that can still be done!

Vickie