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by Gustav on 11 March 2012 - 04:03
Its not about the breed....hasn't been for years.
by Silbersee on 12 March 2012 - 21:03
Hello Ulli,
I just read your post here and got confused. So, please allow me to clarify a couple of things.
The show you mentioned where Harley was placed V-3 was not on February 21. That day was a Tuesday (Fasching - Mardigras) and there would not be any events. So, I checked my SID online (show and stud news from the SV website) and this is what I found:
OG-Zucht- und Nachwuchsschau
am 21.01.2012 OG-Schleswig u. Umgeb. e.V. (LG1)
Stockhaar Klassen
Gebrauchshundklasse Rüden, Richter: Hoffmann Jürgen
V 1 *Mentos vom Osterberger-Land 2220389, 30.04.08, SchH3 (Nando Gollerweiher - Quencie Osterberger-Land)
V 2 *Omen v. Radhaus 2267318, 27.08.09, SchH3 (Remo Fichtenschlag - Oprah Aurelius)
V 3 Team Marlboro Harley DKK 03218/2010, 15.01.10, SchH2 (Team Marlboro Jaguar - Cim Waterbör)
I omitted the names and addresses of the owners of the dogs and only copied the first three placements as the dogs behind them are not relevant. But I left the name of the judge in place as this is public knowledge.
The show was already held on January 21, 2012 and at that time, the SV had not published any ban on Harley at all. That was done in the month of February (please check the SV website under "Aktuell"). I think it is very important to clarify these facts, so we get our chronology right. Otherwise, it might sound like the SV would condone the showing and breeding of Harley.Other than that, you are absolutely right regarding your comments of using a dog with a defective parent and I will continue to check the show and stud news as well to see if Harley appears anywhere.
For anybody who wanted to know: Harley's owner was listed with a Danish address and Jörg Niedergassel was co-owner, but again - this was an event held in January, not February.
Chris
I just read your post here and got confused. So, please allow me to clarify a couple of things.
The show you mentioned where Harley was placed V-3 was not on February 21. That day was a Tuesday (Fasching - Mardigras) and there would not be any events. So, I checked my SID online (show and stud news from the SV website) and this is what I found:
OG-Zucht- und Nachwuchsschau
am 21.01.2012 OG-Schleswig u. Umgeb. e.V. (LG1)
Stockhaar Klassen
Gebrauchshundklasse Rüden, Richter: Hoffmann Jürgen
V 1 *Mentos vom Osterberger-Land 2220389, 30.04.08, SchH3 (Nando Gollerweiher - Quencie Osterberger-Land)
V 2 *Omen v. Radhaus 2267318, 27.08.09, SchH3 (Remo Fichtenschlag - Oprah Aurelius)
V 3 Team Marlboro Harley DKK 03218/2010, 15.01.10, SchH2 (Team Marlboro Jaguar - Cim Waterbör)
I omitted the names and addresses of the owners of the dogs and only copied the first three placements as the dogs behind them are not relevant. But I left the name of the judge in place as this is public knowledge.
The show was already held on January 21, 2012 and at that time, the SV had not published any ban on Harley at all. That was done in the month of February (please check the SV website under "Aktuell"). I think it is very important to clarify these facts, so we get our chronology right. Otherwise, it might sound like the SV would condone the showing and breeding of Harley.Other than that, you are absolutely right regarding your comments of using a dog with a defective parent and I will continue to check the show and stud news as well to see if Harley appears anywhere.
For anybody who wanted to know: Harley's owner was listed with a Danish address and Jörg Niedergassel was co-owner, but again - this was an event held in January, not February.
Chris
by Oskar1 on 30 March 2012 - 17:03
Hello,
Chris, of course you are right - my fault.
Not that I believe that this makes a difference, the SV had knowledge of this ordeal since December, they even admitted that fraud took place with the x-rays of Jaguar.
Actually there is no ban on Harley - there has never been a ban on Harley to begin with ! SV publication (1/12) means published in the 1st month of 2012 - so that was done in January & Febuary 2012.
Chris, do you really believe that these guys did not know about that ?? Come on Chris, you are way more clever than that !!
And by the way, I wrote twice to Mr. Hoffmann, guess what, he never answered ! What a surprise, actually not !
Mr. Hoffmann is the Head breedwarden in the same LG as where Mr. Wischalla is head of the LG - dont you think they talked about that ?? They are close buddys - but never talked about that ? Sure, they never did !! Give me a break.
Chris, there is so much dealing going on, it really schoked me - and there are always the same group of peopel involved, it is much more worse than I ever thought it could be !
Ulli
Chris, of course you are right - my fault.
Not that I believe that this makes a difference, the SV had knowledge of this ordeal since December, they even admitted that fraud took place with the x-rays of Jaguar.
Actually there is no ban on Harley - there has never been a ban on Harley to begin with ! SV publication (1/12) means published in the 1st month of 2012 - so that was done in January & Febuary 2012.
Chris, do you really believe that these guys did not know about that ?? Come on Chris, you are way more clever than that !!
And by the way, I wrote twice to Mr. Hoffmann, guess what, he never answered ! What a surprise, actually not !
Mr. Hoffmann is the Head breedwarden in the same LG as where Mr. Wischalla is head of the LG - dont you think they talked about that ?? They are close buddys - but never talked about that ? Sure, they never did !! Give me a break.
Chris, there is so much dealing going on, it really schoked me - and there are always the same group of peopel involved, it is much more worse than I ever thought it could be !
Ulli
by Oskar1 on 30 March 2012 - 17:03
Abby,
yes he is co owned by one of the biggest breeders here in Germany , the Niedergassel Family; they own Holtkämper Hof / Tor / See !!
The sad part is, they alsao know all about this ordeal, actually they are part of it, but they still promote Harley as a Stud Dog on their HP !!
Amazing, isn't it ??
Ulli
yes he is co owned by one of the biggest breeders here in Germany , the Niedergassel Family; they own Holtkämper Hof / Tor / See !!
The sad part is, they alsao know all about this ordeal, actually they are part of it, but they still promote Harley as a Stud Dog on their HP !!
Amazing, isn't it ??
Ulli
by Oskar1 on 01 April 2012 - 08:04
Hello
by Ibrahim on 01 April 2012 - 11:04
2 hellos from me to you Oskar1 
by Oskar1 on 01 April 2012 - 20:04
Ibrahim,
thanks a lot, if I can be of help to you in the future, I will certainly do so !
Ulli
thanks a lot, if I can be of help to you in the future, I will certainly do so !
Ulli
by Abby Normal on 01 April 2012 - 22:04
Hello Ulli
Sorry, I missed your post.
I had in my mind there was some form of ownership by a German breeder. I didn't realise it was Holtkämper. Wow.
Sorry, I missed your post.
I had in my mind there was some form of ownership by a German breeder. I didn't realise it was Holtkämper. Wow.
by Oskar1 on 02 April 2012 - 12:04
Abby,
not a problem at all. Wow, is one of the nicer reactions
I recieved ! You would, as I did, be speechless
if you would know everything !
Ulli
by Oskar1 on 19 April 2012 - 06:04
Hello,
and yes, the drama continous ! What I labeld as "very disturbing" is the following :
What is aparantly tried, to explain by the acused party is, that the whole idear of re-exraying Jaguar was done by a person, who died, before he could be questioned !I will not speculate about anything, nor do I wish that anyone else does, this is too sad.
My condolences to the Family.
Furthermore, a belgian friend claims that he spotted Holtkämper See females, mated by, you guessed it right, HARLEY ! Surprise, Surprise !
Rather not, as soon as I have watertight proof, I will let you know.
Ulli
and yes, the drama continous ! What I labeld as "very disturbing" is the following :
What is aparantly tried, to explain by the acused party is, that the whole idear of re-exraying Jaguar was done by a person, who died, before he could be questioned !I will not speculate about anything, nor do I wish that anyone else does, this is too sad.
My condolences to the Family.
Furthermore, a belgian friend claims that he spotted Holtkämper See females, mated by, you guessed it right, HARLEY ! Surprise, Surprise !
Rather not, as soon as I have watertight proof, I will let you know.
Ulli
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