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by Oskar1 on 10 March 2012 - 10:03
Hello,
some of us more, some of us less, will recall the story about Team Marlboro Jaguar & his son Harley.
Alltogether a rather heartwrenching story, full off, in the beginning, rumors - in the end the knowledge that fraud had taken place, dogs were misrepresented, placings revoked - not funny at all.
It then was tried by GSD enthusiast's to make it known, that Harley should not be used in breedings, based on the german breeding regulations - sadly there were a few that tried to stop us from doing so. Why exactly they did what they did, I dont know. Anyhow, we warned, that that would not be the end of it - we expressed our concern that Harley could be used in breedings with foreign females, in countrys where the breeding regulations may differ from those in Germany. Why did we do that - it is our strong believe that the strict regulations that are installed should apply to ALL clubs, that are within the SV.
Furthermore we find it absolutely NOT ok, that German Judges promote dogs that are not breedable in Germany, but yet find it obviously ok to use them outside of Germany . They give them a plattform, suggesting a foreign female owner, hey everything is ok with Harley, afterall, he again was judged at a german show, by a german judge !
And so it was :
Harley was placed V 3 at the show in Schleswig on 21.02.20012, out of 15 dogs, in the workingclass !
And that by a judge, who is very close to Mr. Wischalla, the BSZ 2011 judge, who said he would never have placed Harley in the top, if he would have known about the curcumstances surrounding Jaguar & Harley !! They are both top representatives of the LG 19, Sachsen.
A few of our postings in the past got deleted, because we "assumed, and basicly had no proof of the future.." , we did foresee that the promoting of Harley would go on. Sadly enough, the wrongdoing will continue.
We will stay on it, if someone is interested to know more, there is a Belgian guy out there, who has now the whole story published in German, English and Dutch via the Net !
Need more info ?? PM me, if I can be of help, I will do so.
Regards
Ulli Dresbach
some of us more, some of us less, will recall the story about Team Marlboro Jaguar & his son Harley.
Alltogether a rather heartwrenching story, full off, in the beginning, rumors - in the end the knowledge that fraud had taken place, dogs were misrepresented, placings revoked - not funny at all.
It then was tried by GSD enthusiast's to make it known, that Harley should not be used in breedings, based on the german breeding regulations - sadly there were a few that tried to stop us from doing so. Why exactly they did what they did, I dont know. Anyhow, we warned, that that would not be the end of it - we expressed our concern that Harley could be used in breedings with foreign females, in countrys where the breeding regulations may differ from those in Germany. Why did we do that - it is our strong believe that the strict regulations that are installed should apply to ALL clubs, that are within the SV.
Furthermore we find it absolutely NOT ok, that German Judges promote dogs that are not breedable in Germany, but yet find it obviously ok to use them outside of Germany . They give them a plattform, suggesting a foreign female owner, hey everything is ok with Harley, afterall, he again was judged at a german show, by a german judge !
And so it was :
Harley was placed V 3 at the show in Schleswig on 21.02.20012, out of 15 dogs, in the workingclass !
And that by a judge, who is very close to Mr. Wischalla, the BSZ 2011 judge, who said he would never have placed Harley in the top, if he would have known about the curcumstances surrounding Jaguar & Harley !! They are both top representatives of the LG 19, Sachsen.
A few of our postings in the past got deleted, because we "assumed, and basicly had no proof of the future.." , we did foresee that the promoting of Harley would go on. Sadly enough, the wrongdoing will continue.
We will stay on it, if someone is interested to know more, there is a Belgian guy out there, who has now the whole story published in German, English and Dutch via the Net !
Need more info ?? PM me, if I can be of help, I will do so.
Regards
Ulli Dresbach
by Oskar1 on 10 March 2012 - 10:03
Hello again,
aparantly the guy in Belgium took the translation down - why I dont know, but I am sure it will be back up !
Ulli
aparantly the guy in Belgium took the translation down - why I dont know, but I am sure it will be back up !
Ulli
by NigerDeltaMann on 10 March 2012 - 11:03
they claim to preserve/improve the gsd but when they breed a "bloody-naked-electric wire-of-a-faulty dog" then they look for a "forein dump site" female to continue their error. Being a recipient of such dog, i know how painful it is.
by Abby Normal on 10 March 2012 - 12:03
Ulli
I do not know all the intricacies of the SV breeding/showing regulations, so perhaps you could clarify something for me.
Jaguar was discovered to have elbows that were unacceptable for breeding, so he must be removed from the SV breed book. Wouldn't this mean that any of his progeny (for example Harley) as a consequence cannot be registered for breeding (in Germany) either, and if so how can an unregistered dog be eligible to be shown? Or am I missing something?
It would seem that the SV cannot or will not address this situation. It seems to be rewarding fraud. Is it yet known who perpetrated the fraud?
I do not know all the intricacies of the SV breeding/showing regulations, so perhaps you could clarify something for me.
Jaguar was discovered to have elbows that were unacceptable for breeding, so he must be removed from the SV breed book. Wouldn't this mean that any of his progeny (for example Harley) as a consequence cannot be registered for breeding (in Germany) either, and if so how can an unregistered dog be eligible to be shown? Or am I missing something?
It would seem that the SV cannot or will not address this situation. It seems to be rewarding fraud. Is it yet known who perpetrated the fraud?
by Oskar1 on 10 March 2012 - 12:03
Abby,
Harley is not registered in Germany, therefor he cannot be banned - but he is also not allowed to be used for breedings with german owned females.
Since Harley is not registered in Germany, he can be shown under his, I believe danish registration - at this moment german regulation are not a criteria.
There is an ongoing investigation carried on, it is very hard to understand why info is not coming out - regarding the x-rays, there are rumors, and quite disturbing ones at that, but at this point, they are rumors, so I wont comment or spread them. But indeed, they are disturbing.
Ulli
Harley is not registered in Germany, therefor he cannot be banned - but he is also not allowed to be used for breedings with german owned females.
Since Harley is not registered in Germany, he can be shown under his, I believe danish registration - at this moment german regulation are not a criteria.
There is an ongoing investigation carried on, it is very hard to understand why info is not coming out - regarding the x-rays, there are rumors, and quite disturbing ones at that, but at this point, they are rumors, so I wont comment or spread them. But indeed, they are disturbing.
Ulli
by Vom Brunhaus on 10 March 2012 - 14:03
Hallo Oskar ....... Yes that News Reporter Jantie will get hold of it for sure.
Vom Brunhaus
Vom Brunhaus
by Nans gsd on 10 March 2012 - 14:03
Why would ANYONE want to breed ANY dog with bad elbows? Or any other major fault to be spread amongst the breed? Truly unforgiveable in my book as in my past breeding years of a specific breed my puppies/dogs with faults of such would be spayed or neutered and put in pet homes to be loved and enjoyed as a family pet, NOT TO BE USED IN ANY BREEDING PROGRAM, EVER. That is the ethical thing to do, inside a particular country or outside a particular country, working dog or show dog. NO EXCEPTIONS. Nan
by Vom Brunhaus on 10 March 2012 - 15:03
Good post NANS GSD. VB
by Oskar1 on 10 March 2012 - 15:03
Nans,
you hit the nail right on the head ! NO EXCEPTIONS !
Sadly enough, Harley is not registered in Germany, therefor to be shown here in Germany, his ancesters dont play a role in the decision if he is allowed to be shown in Germany or not ! The rules allow that for foreign dogs !
So here we have an dog, Harley, who's father has "severe ED", was stripped of his placing at the BSZ 2011, lost his Körung and in consequence the 9th place in the Zuchtgruppe was taken away - the Judge who crowned Harley at the BSZ 2011, Mr. Wischalla stated clearly that he would have never crowned Harley, but yet you can find Harley in the top rankings !
One has to start asking why is this the case ?
The problem here on PDB is, it is not allowed to make assumptions - even if they turn out to be true in the end.
So will try to word my thoughts in a way that can withstand the strict evaluation of the Mods. - no offence Ladys & Gentlemen.
What do you do when you are looking to buy a dog ? Right, you would look at trials, show results, medical conditions of parents.....so , for instance, you look for Harleys HD,ED results, as he is the father of your next puppy - you find HD "a2" & ED "a1", furthermore Harley was the Winner of the most pretigous show in the homeland of the GSD's, on top he has even more top placings in Germany - if you are not fully informed and know the ins & outs, you will truely believe that you are about to have a puppy from one of the highest thought of sires !
If you now also take into consideration that some countrys still dont require ellbows to be x-rayed - or are less strict than in Germany to stick to rules, ooohps, sorry it was also possible to manipulate ED gradings in Germany, so why should it not be possible in other countrys - you may aswell have bought yourself a pup that may not see his 1st birthday !
But still, why would you use such animal at stud ? May it be because gas prices are rising daily, and you want to cover your cost's, or may it be that you just dont care ?
Or may it be that all the german science results are deemed by these experts as not important enough, that it is reasonable to disobey them, because it is a foreign dog ?
Regardless from which angle I look at it - it's so wrong, it makes me wanting to puke !
Ulli
-
you hit the nail right on the head ! NO EXCEPTIONS !
Sadly enough, Harley is not registered in Germany, therefor to be shown here in Germany, his ancesters dont play a role in the decision if he is allowed to be shown in Germany or not ! The rules allow that for foreign dogs !
So here we have an dog, Harley, who's father has "severe ED", was stripped of his placing at the BSZ 2011, lost his Körung and in consequence the 9th place in the Zuchtgruppe was taken away - the Judge who crowned Harley at the BSZ 2011, Mr. Wischalla stated clearly that he would have never crowned Harley, but yet you can find Harley in the top rankings !
One has to start asking why is this the case ?
The problem here on PDB is, it is not allowed to make assumptions - even if they turn out to be true in the end.
So will try to word my thoughts in a way that can withstand the strict evaluation of the Mods. - no offence Ladys & Gentlemen.
What do you do when you are looking to buy a dog ? Right, you would look at trials, show results, medical conditions of parents.....so , for instance, you look for Harleys HD,ED results, as he is the father of your next puppy - you find HD "a2" & ED "a1", furthermore Harley was the Winner of the most pretigous show in the homeland of the GSD's, on top he has even more top placings in Germany - if you are not fully informed and know the ins & outs, you will truely believe that you are about to have a puppy from one of the highest thought of sires !
If you now also take into consideration that some countrys still dont require ellbows to be x-rayed - or are less strict than in Germany to stick to rules, ooohps, sorry it was also possible to manipulate ED gradings in Germany, so why should it not be possible in other countrys - you may aswell have bought yourself a pup that may not see his 1st birthday !
But still, why would you use such animal at stud ? May it be because gas prices are rising daily, and you want to cover your cost's, or may it be that you just dont care ?
Or may it be that all the german science results are deemed by these experts as not important enough, that it is reasonable to disobey them, because it is a foreign dog ?
Regardless from which angle I look at it - it's so wrong, it makes me wanting to puke !
Ulli
-
by Abby Normal on 10 March 2012 - 23:03
Ulli
Thank you. I was missing something of course. The fact that Harley was not registered in Germany! For some reason I thought he was. Is he owned by someone in Germany and that is where I became confused? Anyway - thank you, as ever, for clearing up my confusion.
Thank you. I was missing something of course. The fact that Harley was not registered in Germany! For some reason I thought he was. Is he owned by someone in Germany and that is where I became confused? Anyway - thank you, as ever, for clearing up my confusion.
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