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by guddu on 12 February 2012 - 18:02
I wanted to know, what kind of physical defects can be seen by the breeder by about 8 weeks. I realise HD takes time to pick up. based on the messages on the board, the following can be noticed at 8 weeks. The purpose of this query is to identify the "faults" which the breeder should inform buyer in terms of disclosure.
1. Overbite
2. One testis
3. Long coat
Are there others ?.
1. Overbite
2. One testis
3. Long coat
Are there others ?.
by EuroShepherd on 12 February 2012 - 19:02
These are things that the buyer should also be able to tell when choosing/picking up a puppy.
Unless the puppy is shipped-then it is the seller's duty to make sure they tell all easily visible defects/potential defects. Personally if the buyer is choosing the puppy in person then they are capable of seeing any visual defects and if the defects are cosmetic or minor issues and the puppy is going to a pet only home then I don't think the breeder is responsible for pointing out every minor fault that a puppy has unless the pup is going to a breeding/show home.
Faults that a breeder should be able to tell:
1. Hernias: umbilical hernias are common and usually never cause problems, hernias elsewhere can be problematic. Hernias are usually corrected during spay/neuter surgeries. not really a big deal for pups going to pet homes.
2. Bite problems: (wry-mouth, overbite, underbite (note: bites can sometimes correct themselves, rarely are bite problems so bad that they affect the dog's ability to eat, therefore most bite issues are minor problems and fine for pet dogs))
3. Dewclaws: sometimes pups have extra dewclaws or dewclaws on the rear feet. Dewclaws are primarily a cosmetic issue and not a health issue. Some dogs are more prone to injuring their dewclaws, but then again any toes can be injured. Dewclaws need to be trimmed more often than other claws.
4. Testicles: usually the testes are down by 8 weeks, but it's not uncommon for one or both testes to have not dropped by 8 weeks old (or they play yo-yo, going up and down.) Really only an issue for a pup for breeding/showing. If the pup is going to a pet home then it's going to get neutered anyways.
5. Ears: usually down still at 8 weeks, nice to see when they are up by this age. Ears are only an issue for people who want to breed/show.
6. Coat: Usually should be able to tell if it's a longcoat or not by 8 weeks, but some coated pups can be sneaky when they are still puppies and some people have difficulty determining coated pups, it does take some good visual skill to tell some coated pups.
7. White: spots can occur on chest/toes/feet. Minor cosmetic fault. Only an issue for show/breeding homes.
8. Offcolors such as blues and livers, again some people can not see the difference unless it is pointed out to them. Even then, some people (even some breeders) still mis-label the color/patterns of the pups/dogs.
9. Any obvious injuries, rashes, infections, dirty ears, abcesses, weepy/goopy eyes, runny nose, cough etc. Pups shouldn't be sold with these problems until problems have healed.
10. Parasites: fleas, lice, mites, internal parasites, mange, ringworm, etc. again it's the breeder's job to take care of any of these problems. Pups should not go to new homes until they've been properly treated.
11. Rickets or other visible signs of mal-nutrition.
12. Pups should receive vaccinations for at least parvo and distemper and dewormings.
If the breeder takes the pups to the vets before they go to their new homes then the examining vet should note any hernias, parasites, obvious injury/illness, bite issues, cleft palate, heart murmurs, breathing problems, strange lumps in the abdomen, presence of testes, some eye problems, some ear problems, high/low temps, rickets, etc.
Note: Puppy buyers should take their pups to the vet's the same day or the next day to determine if pups have parasites/illness. Some parasites such as fleas can be picked up anywhere and it only takes seconds for a pup to get fleas, so a breeder may not be to blaim if a vet's exam of a new pup shows a flea or two. A good vet will look to see if there are skin wounds due to fleas (and thus may be able to determine if the pup came with fleas from the breeder's and not from the new owner) there are other parasites such as coccidia that almost all pups/dogs have and can flare up because of stress such as going to a new home. A good vet should never blame the breeder if a pup is showing signs of mild/moderate coccidiosis (or some other parasites/protozoan/etc. issues)
If an owner waits more than 2 days to take their new pup to the vet's then the breeder should not be held responsible for any non-genetic problems that may occur.
I've been fortunate with the few litters that I've raised that I've never received any complaints from my puppy buyers for any health issues. But, I've read the horror stories online and I've listened to my breeder friends tell me their ordeals with puppy buyers. We hear so often about greedy breeders who screw people over. We need to be more aware also of greedy puppy buyers who screw breeders over with false and inflated claims. I'm very leary of any puppy buyer who seems to be trying to find faults with the puppy or breeder.
I'm sure I left stuff out, what else can someone add to this?
Unless the puppy is shipped-then it is the seller's duty to make sure they tell all easily visible defects/potential defects. Personally if the buyer is choosing the puppy in person then they are capable of seeing any visual defects and if the defects are cosmetic or minor issues and the puppy is going to a pet only home then I don't think the breeder is responsible for pointing out every minor fault that a puppy has unless the pup is going to a breeding/show home.
Faults that a breeder should be able to tell:
1. Hernias: umbilical hernias are common and usually never cause problems, hernias elsewhere can be problematic. Hernias are usually corrected during spay/neuter surgeries. not really a big deal for pups going to pet homes.
2. Bite problems: (wry-mouth, overbite, underbite (note: bites can sometimes correct themselves, rarely are bite problems so bad that they affect the dog's ability to eat, therefore most bite issues are minor problems and fine for pet dogs))
3. Dewclaws: sometimes pups have extra dewclaws or dewclaws on the rear feet. Dewclaws are primarily a cosmetic issue and not a health issue. Some dogs are more prone to injuring their dewclaws, but then again any toes can be injured. Dewclaws need to be trimmed more often than other claws.
4. Testicles: usually the testes are down by 8 weeks, but it's not uncommon for one or both testes to have not dropped by 8 weeks old (or they play yo-yo, going up and down.) Really only an issue for a pup for breeding/showing. If the pup is going to a pet home then it's going to get neutered anyways.
5. Ears: usually down still at 8 weeks, nice to see when they are up by this age. Ears are only an issue for people who want to breed/show.
6. Coat: Usually should be able to tell if it's a longcoat or not by 8 weeks, but some coated pups can be sneaky when they are still puppies and some people have difficulty determining coated pups, it does take some good visual skill to tell some coated pups.
7. White: spots can occur on chest/toes/feet. Minor cosmetic fault. Only an issue for show/breeding homes.
8. Offcolors such as blues and livers, again some people can not see the difference unless it is pointed out to them. Even then, some people (even some breeders) still mis-label the color/patterns of the pups/dogs.
9. Any obvious injuries, rashes, infections, dirty ears, abcesses, weepy/goopy eyes, runny nose, cough etc. Pups shouldn't be sold with these problems until problems have healed.
10. Parasites: fleas, lice, mites, internal parasites, mange, ringworm, etc. again it's the breeder's job to take care of any of these problems. Pups should not go to new homes until they've been properly treated.
11. Rickets or other visible signs of mal-nutrition.
12. Pups should receive vaccinations for at least parvo and distemper and dewormings.
If the breeder takes the pups to the vets before they go to their new homes then the examining vet should note any hernias, parasites, obvious injury/illness, bite issues, cleft palate, heart murmurs, breathing problems, strange lumps in the abdomen, presence of testes, some eye problems, some ear problems, high/low temps, rickets, etc.
Note: Puppy buyers should take their pups to the vet's the same day or the next day to determine if pups have parasites/illness. Some parasites such as fleas can be picked up anywhere and it only takes seconds for a pup to get fleas, so a breeder may not be to blaim if a vet's exam of a new pup shows a flea or two. A good vet will look to see if there are skin wounds due to fleas (and thus may be able to determine if the pup came with fleas from the breeder's and not from the new owner) there are other parasites such as coccidia that almost all pups/dogs have and can flare up because of stress such as going to a new home. A good vet should never blame the breeder if a pup is showing signs of mild/moderate coccidiosis (or some other parasites/protozoan/etc. issues)
If an owner waits more than 2 days to take their new pup to the vet's then the breeder should not be held responsible for any non-genetic problems that may occur.
I've been fortunate with the few litters that I've raised that I've never received any complaints from my puppy buyers for any health issues. But, I've read the horror stories online and I've listened to my breeder friends tell me their ordeals with puppy buyers. We hear so often about greedy breeders who screw people over. We need to be more aware also of greedy puppy buyers who screw breeders over with false and inflated claims. I'm very leary of any puppy buyer who seems to be trying to find faults with the puppy or breeder.
I'm sure I left stuff out, what else can someone add to this?
by BlackthornGSD on 12 February 2012 - 21:02
That was pretty thorough!
Christine
Christine
by djc on 12 February 2012 - 22:02
Testicles can still drop after 8 weeks of age.
Overbites in GSD puppies commonly correct themselves by 1 year old. The lower jaw grows at a different rate than the upper jaw especially in large boned puppies.
Long coats can be hard to identify. Look at all the threads on people asking if a puppy is or not.
But yes as a general rule they can tell at 8 weeks if they puppy has/is these things.
Debby
Overbites in GSD puppies commonly correct themselves by 1 year old. The lower jaw grows at a different rate than the upper jaw especially in large boned puppies.
Long coats can be hard to identify. Look at all the threads on people asking if a puppy is or not.
But yes as a general rule they can tell at 8 weeks if they puppy has/is these things.
Debby
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