Linebreeding to a "Noch" rated dog? - Page 1

Does anyone know if linebreeding to a "noch" rated dog will produce a higher instance unsound hips?

I doubt it. Look at all these dogs linebred on Jeck Noricum. Do they have a higher incidence? In the near future, you will see more and more linebreeding on Jeck, since we seem to have too much of a concentration on the Ursus-/Yasko-line. Don't get me wrong I love what that line produces. I just wish for more alternative lines. In the past, Hermann Martin and also Peter Messler had always made sure that there is a diversity among the VA-groups. Now? Just take a look at this year's male VA-group. Please count how many you can find from the above line. But that would be a different topic. Back to HD: I think that there is just no way of predicting that, since HD is a multi-genetic disorder - meaning that no single defective gene is to blame. If that was the case it would have been eliminated already. Until science is going to map the canine genom and trying to pinpoint individual disorders, we will have to deal with that. We can only try to lower the incidence. The ZW-system is another fine tool we have. Chris

I also agree that it seems the norm that OFA ex or good seem to produce just as much HD if not more than if two OFA Fair would. also agree about the small range of different lines.. used to be about 10 from what i recall. however, just because a dog is VA doesnt mean we have to solely utilize them.. many many many V rated dogs that come from some serious backrounds for what we may prefer :)

Dogs with a noch set of hips on the average will contribute to less favorable hips than "a normal" and likely even a bit more than "fast normal". But as the SV has noted, it is important to consider the hip scores additive for the sire and dam. Undoubtedly breeding a stud dog who is dominant for good hips such as Harry Dunieshenke or Esko Danishen Hof is going to produce better hips than other less favorable stud dog hip producers holding all other factors constant such as controlling for hip status in the dam. But there are always exceptions. If there was a noch stud who was the only one with an extremely valuable trait, one could still use him if his hip producing status was better than average when compared to other nochs and if the dam was super clean and a good hip producer (her lines being clean when compared to others).

I agree with everything. Sibersee, I also would like to have more alternative bloodlines. My youngest bitch, which I want to rebuy (bred by me) is a "Wallace"-daughter and has "Jeck-linebreeding, seeing as her mother is a "Largo v. Breidenbacher-Schloss"-daughter. Sincerely, I would like to have a good male in Germany next year or so, who does not have "Jeck", and particularily "Ursus". In Spain most people breed with "Ursus", or sons and daughters of "Ursus". We soo will find no way out :-( . And, as far as I am concerned, forget "Zamb". The thing is they already have a lot of "Zamb" here in Spain and now breed "Ursus"-lines with "Zamb"-granddaughters. Besides, I am not too sure about "Zamb", I have seen more HD coming from him than coming from "Jeck", who was a "noch zugelassen = a3). But that might be different in other countries. So, I would not be too worried about inbreeding of "noch" dogs, but excluding the line I just mentioned. I am very sceptical about that one. But then, I check the ZW of parents , grandparents, etc. I still think this is of great help. Best regards.

I to am seeing higher incidents of HD on Line breeding to Zamb. Nice pups great drives and strong pigment but hips crap! Anyone elses experiences?

This makes little sense. Line breeding is popular to fix characteristics - correct? You linebreed to dogs with characteristics you want your dogs to have. So if the characteristic is a less desireable one - like NZ hips, why do you not think you have a greater chance of getting NZ or worse hips? Just as if you linbred on a dog wiht a white blaze on it's chest or white toenails? Yes, breeding WITH an NZ dog to a dog with 'a' normal is not so big a deal in the big picture - but this was a question about linebreeding on NZ dogs.