Europe Breeders - Page 9

Yogi, YOU pick someone, Tyson was the first name that came to my mind. The point I am trying to make is that you MUST have the genetic material, first, in order to learn how to do a job properly.
Special operations forces have a "selection process", that is to pick people who already have what it takes to be a part of an SOF Unit...they dont train you to become that person, they train you to give you the "tools" you will need to achieve your objective.

All this talk about training and more training, believing that it will substitute proper genetics is BS. A dog with the right genetics WILL bite a person in a sleeping bag, if allowed to, a dog with the wrong genetics and all the training, MAY bite that person and still not accomplish the job right. Find the proper dog, train it correctly and you will end up with something you can ride the river with. The problem is, some of these dogs are not the easiest to deal with day in and day out and everyone claims they have one.

Hired I have the dogs 😉 they need to tobe taught to control them self's.

I have just read all nine pages and didn’t look at the video. I got such a contrasting picture from the comments that I decided to look at the video.
I really like the dog a lot as pup and adult. A very pragmatic and practical working dog. I especially like the temperament and discernment the dog shows. I like how the dog can stay focused on the man in front of him and still be cognizant of the guy down the field behind the blind as a potential threat, yet stay focused on threat at hand. I’m not looking at points grips, but effective grips, I like the commitment to bite yet awareness of second assailant plus the handler’s well being. It takes a certain type dog to effectively give you these things, and most trainers I know these days don’t know how to elicit this type of control, aggression, and calmness, from this type dog. Many trainers I know think this is lacking dog and would discourage owner/handler from continuing training and get a higher drive dog. I laugh at this. This is very nice dog, that’s not to say other type dogs can’t be very nice also, but we are losing the genetics of dogs like this because they don’t fit the box of the narrative of what a good dog is today.jmo

I never imagined this was going to be a 9 page topic :-) Anyway i can see the versatility of the GSD through the different point of views/practices. Now going back to the beggining where should i start looking if my purpose is to find a dog of good guard qualities, clear headed, good health genetics (from ancestors records). Im aware of the traning importance. I see a lot of talk about Czech, DDR, WGWL lines. Is this something that should be given utmost importance today or we can find what we are looking for in any of them, given that we find the right breeders and genetics and complement it with a strong training etics? I believe today a lot of cross breeding between the lines/genetics has happened.

@nmbc84: I recently took on a 2 year old male import from Czech Rep., bred by Jiri Novotny (JINOPO kennel). I was familiar and impressed with him since he was a pup. The previous owner in my training group had a life change and gave him up. His close and far pedigree consists of Czech/zPs, West German working/sport, and old DDR lines. The dog has no shortage of accessible workings drives, energy and athleticism, and is nicely behaved at home...good looking too. I’m fortunate to own him. I think the ‘DDR’ concept is probably more of a type - and not necessarily well defined either. It all depends on what you are looking for, but there is potential added value from the old DDR lines..as there is from WGWL, Czech, etc., in the working GSD today.  

nmcbs84 - are you wanting to select a breeder/litter close to you so that you can view the pups as they grow, or are you OK with getting one from farther afield and trusting the breeder to select the appropriate pup for you? These considerations, and your general location, may provide some recommendations for breeders who could produce the type of pup/dog you are looking for.

Thank you both. I live in Portugal. I would love to find here breeders i could look into. But i have doubts if will find what im looking for. I know some breeders.
there are a few breeders of WGWL (actually some with mixed Czech bloodlines) here (actually one of them it was where i bought my GSD, a mix of WGWL and WGSL, mainly the former). But the breeding culture is not so developed, actually a lot of times dogs are imported for breeding purposes. Then you have Spain where i believe there are more options but still unkown to me.
So yes i would love to find breeders near me, but in case thats not possible i can look elsewhere.
Now as i believe even within European countries (EU) there are some restrictions in importing dogs, like you have to wait a certain amount of time until the puppy is "liberated" for export (rabies vacine,etc...).
I could have the means to travel to central Europe if necessary (actually my brother is in France until next year) but if i feel that i can trust the breeder i may let his experience and knowledge to select one. Its a matter of talking and see. I like to see the puppies myself even if my knowledge is limited, anyway we would have to talk and see the opurtunities.
Im open.

nmcbs84
you already mentioned breeders of your interest on first page. why you wouldn't contact them and explain what you looking for and do they can provide such type of dog?
vom Deichgrafen perhaps not, as their interest lays in sport participation but others might have something more down to earth and practical. von Lord Fandor location originally was former DDR and seems they still run farm with sheeps and perhaps still use their dogs for that as well.
vom Kabuschsee, Heike started in former DDR breeding system and seems like still very dedicated to old DDR standard. looks like she have no interest in sport per se but has plenty of experience and good gut when it comes to pick good dogs for her breeding. keep in mind her dogs not registered with SV.
also you may contact member of this community duke1965. he's located i believe in Czech and has own breeding program mainly directed at dogs for LE/military use. even if he don't have exact what you're looking for, he can recommend you someone he know.

Thank you Valk. I Will certainly contact them. You mentioned the fact that Kabuschsee dogs are not registered with SV. We also here, like in many countries, have a general national obligatory registration (associated with the FCI) and then a specialized breed club. If i may ask does it really matter? Does it give any more credibility or any type of "conformity guaranty"? I believe they are not the only ones. I know that SV have a tremendous database if we want to learn/search/study the history, health,etc... of the dogs. I also see some mentions about SRV2000.

nmcbs84
sorry, i'm the last person who should be asked about advantages official registration. only last my dog did have CKC registration. 5 previous didn't have any papers other than record at border's vet office book and tattoo in ear.
i guess SV and affiliated bodies record important and helpful for commercial breeders in purpose to track background and as a proof of purity of their breeding program. looks like experienced breeders, who know many dogs of the past and present, can to some extend predict outcome of certain mating.