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by maywood on 06 August 2010 - 17:08
Case in point. The Kirschental Kennels is one of the oldest breeders of GSD's. They been around for over 50 years and have seen it all. Karl Fuller is a professional sheep herder and makes his living this way. If the working lines were so great then why don't you see him going to the working lines to "improve" his lines? I'll tell you why, because those dogs have lost their endurance and can't do the work anymore. For the working lines to improve they must go back into the show lines to retreive what they have lost. And in some cases vice-versa.
And by the way, you guys are such downers and your attitudes are smelling up the joint. You complain all day but offer nothing to the conversation on what to do to improve the breed. At least try to come up with something instructive or insightful. Seems to me some of you are just "stuck in your ways" like a bunch old codgers waxing on about yester year.
by darylehret on 06 August 2010 - 17:08
The reason the working line dogs are not performing well in the show ring is because their endurance has been bred out of them. They simply cannot handle working for very long periods of time. The GSD was originally bred to herd sheep all damn day. Working line dogs can't do this because they are not structurally correct and do not have the endurance anymore. It is that simple!That's complete bullshit!
BTW, my sheepherding dog is completely from working lines, and I'll put her up against any showline in an endurance test. If her two daughters were trained for it yet, I'd do the same with them.
by maywood on 06 August 2010 - 17:08
by darylehret on 06 August 2010 - 17:08
You'd run out of film, or room on your memory card, have to eventually get some sleep, go home and eat, come back and she'll still be working.. and working.. and working...
by Felloffher on 06 August 2010 - 18:08
I would blame the owner of a healthy W/L for lack of endurance not the dog. My dogs have no problem going 10-15 Km behind my truck at an elevation of 4500 feet. You want my opinion on how to improve the GSD? Cull show lines.
What is it about S/L that makes their endurance so great Maywood?
by Silbersee on 06 August 2010 - 19:08
darylehret, if you think it is all about money, when what is your breeding program? You own male and female, untitled and according to your website, you sell these puppies for $ 1,500!!! This is pretty much the same price I charge for my workingline puppies bred in Germany out of titled parents. Showlines or workinglines, I can at least say that I never ever bred litters out of untitled dogs. In addition, all parents were breed surveyed (except for one dam which we could not get done on time before the year was over but we surveyed in the following year).
Now, continue on with your bashing which you do at every opportunity you get. When you are done, please enlighten me what dogs bred by you have accomplished so far, other than being family companions.
Of course, showlines can help workinglines improve structure. A known workingline breeder said that if they do not watch out, these workinglines will loose complete touch with the breed standard. Look it up sometimes, I believe you have it on your website. Dogs with croups higher than withers, dips in the back like a pony, tucked up underchests and no angulations are not what the breed standard calls for.
Maybe, the Malinois or Dutch Shepherd would be more the breed you envision.
Happy breeding to you,
Chris
by darylehret on 06 August 2010 - 20:08
All my advertised litters have been from titled dogs (but, no promises in the future), and my prices haven't changed in five years. My ideals certainly have. I had an oops litter of three pups a year ago, all of which I kept, so money just wasn't a factor, no matter what you think it looks like. (Must be like the fourth time I've explained this. We should have a "sticky" on it.)
I've never attacked anyone specifically (no one breeder, no one dog), and yet numerous times people have gone to my website to start searching for things to criticise because they don't like what I have to say here. Says a lot to me about your character, when you go to such lengths.
When you have "SV preachers" selling pups for $1800 out of BH dogs, I'd say yeah, $1500 is pretty fair for what I can offer. Good workingline pups might cost you from $1200 to $2200, depending on many various conditions, but I've seen some ridiculous price tags on showline pups, in the $2600 to $3600 range. Twice the cost for half the dog?!
With my "pony dips", I must be pretty safe from finding my dogs mixed with yours, right? Ha ha, like I really care. I've already stated so many times in so many ways, your perception of conformation is hardly a concern for what my dogs can and can't do.
by Sugarbear on 06 August 2010 - 20:08
by Silbersee on 06 August 2010 - 21:08
I do not follow you or your posts around, so I had no knowledge of your oops litter. I know your website because of you pointing it out to us on numerous occasions when we discussed genetics. Again, your hypothetical knowledge is very respectable but it bothers me that you so obviously disregard the breed standard. It is very clear on degree of angles, toplines and gait. And to get so defensive of your own dogs shows me that you are aware of that lack thereof. BTW, I had quoted a wellknown breeder and judge in my previous post. I did not say anything about your dogs having "pony dips". Please reread! Here is also a link to that said judge's homepage: www.schloss-veitenstein.de/frame.htm . He is a controversial man, to say the least, but I can identify with his opinions. What I had said about workinglines was a loose quote from somewhere on his homepage. I did not criticize your dogs, there is no need to, not my thing to do. Further, I do not attack people, I confront sometimes when I feel that I have to which is very seldom.
Further, I am sorry you have so obvious disregard for the SV. Where do you think the breed would be if not for them? It will continue to be the only true institution because certain other orgnizations will either not to anything to safeguard our breed or promote extremes. And again, I do not sell my puppies for these inflated prices, don't need to, my husband and I have respectable jobs which provide us with a decent income. So, there is no need for us to supplement it. Again, my dogs are all titled, V-rated and breed surveyed (which means they have more than a BH) and my puppy prices are always below $ 2,000 and most my litters are bred in Germany. So, I am not sure why you feel the need to confront me with these prices.
I am glad that our dogs won't be mixed up and I sure hope that you will find plenty of working homes for your puppies. And that was my last post directed to you in this thead!
Have a good one!
by Abby Normal on 06 August 2010 - 21:08
You said it better than I could.
Felloffher -I disagree with your statement. The ideal GSD was a dog that would do whatever you required, work, herd, protect AND/OR if required simply be a calm stable companion. This is the whole point - the versatility of the breed. You could train it to be whatever you want it to be. Charlie319 is reight, you should not HAVE to give the GSD a job of work to be able to live with it. The GSD should have all these qualities naturally, without specialist training, traits which should be inherent but not dominant. If someone wishes to pursue ScH or other sport the dog should be able to be channelled to suit that purpose. If another person wishes to herd livestock, same thing, the dog should be capable of being trained to do it. If another person wishes the dog to be trained as a 'dog for the disabled, or assistance or guide dog, it should have the ability to do that too, and lastly if they simply want a fantastic companion dog, then it should fit that bill too.
The split (and believe me I am not in favour of the showline shape AT ALL) has limited this and channelled it either one way or the other. Surely what we are looking for is a combination of both. Personally I wouldn't care which way round it was done S/L outcrossing to W/L or other way round. All I know in my heart is that there should only be one GSD, and at the moment we don't have it, and hell yes it is going to take a damned long time to ever get it back.
Charlie319
Love the 1966 Sieger, and you illustrate what I was saying. These days this dog would be seen by either 'side' as mediocre.
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