Ok to ask Buyers to Neuter/Spay puppy? - Page 7

That is where I disagree. See the link below.

http://personal.chatham.edu/students/JAdams/PWR673-TeamProject/History.html

Service dogs started out in the United States with German Shepherds.  The problem is that much of the genetics that made a GSD good for Service work has been bred out of them for the more "flashier" use.

I happen to come across a GSD line (grant you, no documented pedigree) that showed strong signs of the old genetics.  The calm, yet confident nature.  The quite nature.  Rose rarely barks; for her, most communication is with body language. 

Why is the assumption that just because a dog is not registered or has a documented pedigree that it will have bad genetic lines?  Truely, how many of the GSD breeders out there have really studied their bred pairs genetics?  I am not talking about the dog pedigree, but the actual genetic coding that makes up a dog's temperment.

There is a great forum with a link on dog genetic study on this web site.  I will find it again and put the link here.

For those of us who remember (yes, I am showing my age), what about Rin Tin Tin?  Yes, he was trained for the movies, but he never protrayed an agressive, hyper dog.  He was calm natured dog. 

I have the type of dog everyone seems to consider the "ideal" GSD.  It is only through extensive training and continual reminder to him who is in charge that he is manageable. 

Do I trust him alone around children? "No."  I have read many posts on this web site and the general idea among everyone is the same: "not to be trusted around small children."  Why is that?

Why do many home insurance companys rank GSDs with Pitbulls and Doberman Pinchers?  When you breed for agression, that is what you are going to get, no matter what the original intent of the dog breed was.  Back to genetics, agression is a dominent gene in all dogs.  Therefore, if you breed for it, you will most certainly get it.  When enough breeders go for this, the breed gets a bad rep.

"Why do many home insurance companys rank GSDs with Pitbulls and Doberman Pinchers?"

Probably because people chain them in the backyard, fail to socialize or train them and when someone gets bit, it is on the breed and not the morons who don't know what they are doing with the breed.

Then that is the dog's environement / training that made them aggressive, correct?

Why are posters telling me that GSDs are the wrong breed for me as a Service Dog?  That I need to go to Labs or Goldens to get a calm, self confident, intellengent dog?

Well people will have opinions, no? Most here would not have bred Rosie for a lot of different reasons. Namely no OFA, DM or other DNA checks. Vets are wrong about xrays all the time and in fact most vets do not have much skill in reading xrays.

I am telling you it is WRONG to breed an unregisted, unproven, not to standard dog, with no OFA, or other health or temperment history!!!  Just my opinion, you apparently do not get it.  She may be a wonderful companion and "Service" dog, however she most likely will not produce the same.

Melissa

Yes, conformationally without being shown, what does Rose contribute to the breed? In regards to health certs, breed worthiness, physical and mental soundness...we are just supposed to take your word?

They are suggesting you find another breed because you are not breeding for the betterment of the breed in regards to the German Shepherd Dog as a whole.

In theory, a GSD should have the temperament to do both service work, and protection work..right? Its a versitile breed, right? So if you're saying Rose lacks the temperament (and possibly the physical soundness, who knows) to do high physical/mental pressure work, AND be a "therapy dog" then what does she contribute but a Golden Retriever in a GSD body?

Protection work, as in schH protection, is in many instances merely a show. Many schH dogs don't have the fortitude to "protect" in real life situations. As for breeding for the "betterment of the breed", that is a moot point when the offspring from this breeding are to be spayed and hopefully neutered as well. In other words, a dead end bloodline but which are being produced for personal use. What a novel concept! Personal use dogs! As far "we" taking her word for whether or not her dog is sound enough to breed, "we" are not feeding her dog, or raising, training and finding homes for the pups, so "we" don't have a say in this matter. Rose is a service dog, and that is a very noble contribution to the breed, and much more demanding, mentally and physically, than trotting around a ring. Rose has as good a chance passing on the qualities that make her a reliable service dog as she would if she had papers... the genetics are still the same. Last I checked, the pursuit of happiness is still in the Declaration of Independence. Let the fireworks begin;)

Only thing id be truly concerned about is, how many generations in this dog have been "BYB"d, how many generations behidn her have no papers and health clearences? For all we know, every one of her grand parents/great grand parents, etc had HD/ED and DM

The only problem I have is that the proper health screenings were not done.  No OFA so no way of knowing how healthy Rose's hips and stud's hips are which could hinder any dog from working, including service work.

Look at it this way, if it wasn't for BYBs, there wouldn't be all those dogs being advertised on tv for adoption. Seems to me, the owner did have her dog exrayed for h/e by her vet. It's not OFA, but better than nothing. It's common knowledge that even if every dog in a pedigree all the way to when the first h/e exrays were done ( whenever that may have been, especially in eastern blok) was clear, it doesn't mean it won't happen anyway.