re; puppies are a crap shoot - Page 4

Fawn, first thing a buyer needs to do is find out what the GSD is. I had a man call me a couple days ago who wanted a GSD puppy when the family moves to their new farm. He wanted a GSD for family protection but wanted it also for guarding the livestock .... chickens and goats which would be loose on the farm. I told him he might do better getting one of the Livestock guardian breeds. Said he would rather have a GSD because their beautiful.
Guess I could have sold him a puppy and then bought it back from him after it killed some his "livestock" :-/
It would have been his first and probably last GSD.

Anyone who thinks all guarantees are bogus has the choice of buying a dog from a breeder who doesn't offer one.

Kitkat:.........To me, that just leaves the door wide open for anyone to sell anything, and not care about the fallout from selling defective pups and dogs.
I do not want to be flippant but I will say :Do not buy "anything". And if they can not sell "anything" then they will need to reproduce better of stop to produce" anything" .
I know that it looks like that I am unloading on you. but I mean it well and sincerely. That is the only way to go.  Be careful what you are buying and where. 

Very true Joan.  Maybe that is something we could also include in the check list "what a buyer needs to know about GSDs and questions they should ask themselves before buying."

You can believe I do (and did) my research before buying the last few dogs I bought.
I had no contracts, actually bought one, sight unseen, due to the fact that I did my rearch on breeder and bloodline and knew what I was after.
There are a few breeders that I would not hesitate to buy a dog from, Prager is one.
But for far too many buyers, there is a whole lot of heartache out there waiting for them.

If the guarantee has too many outs (ifs and buts), buyers should walk away. There is one czech dog breeder (not Hans) whose guarantee has so many outs, ifs and buts that it gave me a headache to even understand it. We probably need a new thread about who has the good guarantees or guarantees that work.

"Puppy buying is a crapshoot".  It is a crapshoot when defects emerge inspite of the breeders good faith attempts to eliminate them from his breeding stock. Its not a crapshoot, but a certainty when breeders breed, dogs/lines knowing fully well that they have problems. eg A recent thread dealt with epilepsy in a breeder's lines.

Im willing to do my homework and take the risk of not having a guarantee .... then I would ask that breeders LOWER THE PRICE. Pricing on this breed has become outrageous and because people here in the states seem to think that if they pay more they get better just makes it bad everywhere. High prices don't make a dog better, it just makes the dog more expensive.

My show dog friends who have other breeds just shake their heads when they see that shepherd people charge what they do and GET IT. The thought process of "Time to make back my money" imo is helping to ruin the breed

@fawndallas..SchHbabe started a really good post on this.She started a great checklist not sure how to link it so I entered the title of the post I think this is what you mean 
Buyer beware - puppy buyers do your homework before you buy
 

I do my homework as much as I can and analyze the parents, grand-parents etc and solicit information on the "hidden relatives" (the ones not visible on the pedigree) on any known issues from that line.  After all of that, and once I am satisfied with what I hear and research, I go with a specific puppy choice.

But once the puppy is home, and passes the vet check, he/she is mine. He/she is a part and parcel of my family and my core being, and will grow old under my care.  I will make sure that during his/her puppyhood, he/she will not be pounding on those young joints by running on hard surfaces like road running and such, will remain lean and fit, and in every other way, stack the environmental factors in the pups' favor.   BUT, I will not be back at the breeder's door, for any reason whatsoever, whether for a refund or  for any other such related things, especially since the breeding was done in good faith, and definitely not with the deliberate intent to create a "defective product".......after all, we are dealing with living, breathing creatures with a variety of ways in which the genetic lottery can be swung. 

But the breeder might want to know the status of things like HD/ED and other common health issues, from their breedings, and I will send that feedback to the breeder, whether good or bad......not with the intent to get a replacement, but to inform them on the results of their breeding decision, to make their future choices better.  But the pup/dog is mine, and not replaceable or a "refundable product" - for any reason whatsoever - and thus the warranty means nothing to me.  Just my POV.

PS:  I am not a breeder and have never bred dogs - yet.

We've bought numerous puppies over the years. Almost all
were imports. The couple we bought from NA breeders were
purchased with the same terms as what we get from Euro
breeders at our request, and the price was adjusted to reflect
this. Buyers need to do their research, purchase from breeders
who spend more time out with their dogs than behind a keyboard.
Don't buy from breeders that sit back and bad mouth 'sport people'
every chance they get, but then turn around and shout to the world 
should a puppy buyer earn a sport title with a dog they produced.
Google the breeder, their website, phone number, and their email,
see what comes up. Some of these breeders that brag about
how great their dogs are sit back on other breed boards and 
natter on and on about how shitty sport people, how they know
nothing etc etc. 

Find the breeder that is working and breeding dogs of their own
breeding! If they have nothing they have produced in their own
'line up' of dogs, why on earth would you buy from them?
If the puppies they are producing are not worth them keeping,
why would they be worth you keeping one?
Ask for and VERIFY health certifications. Don't take anyone's word
for it. If the breeder doesn't understand that, move on to the next.
There are plenty of good breeders out there busting their asses and
proving their progeny, it's not that hard to find them. But, you won't find
them on a discussion board, they just don't have time to sit and be 
keyboard warriors and experts on everything...