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by Slamdunc on 27 March 2012 - 21:03
I think I already posted my views and some examples. I also posted links that members could follow up on. I asked for input from breeders and dog owners. A couple of people like Ibrahim and Blitzen contributed to the thread. Unfortunately, one person has to attempt to make it a personal issue as always. For that reason I will let my contribution stand as it was meant to be; a starting point for a conversation. Please try to stay on topic and not make this another personal agenda. Daryl, I am not referring to you by this post.
by GSD Admin on 27 March 2012 - 21:03
I never took this personal, nor do I have a personal issue. I actually offered a spot for it in articles so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle but I can't take what is copied off another site and make it into an article here. Not sure where you see it as personal but hey, whatever.
Blitzen posted this and I have only been answering her and your "joke". So, I am not off topic. Besides members want the topics to have a little leeway.
"Maybe Oli could dedicate a section of the board to a guideline for those who are looking for information on how to buy a GSD."
I am done, my offer stands and there is nothing personal about it. PERIOD.
Blitzen posted this and I have only been answering her and your "joke". So, I am not off topic. Besides members want the topics to have a little leeway.
"Maybe Oli could dedicate a section of the board to a guideline for those who are looking for information on how to buy a GSD."
I am done, my offer stands and there is nothing personal about it. PERIOD.
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 01:03
Hey, I honestly did think it was a joke!!!
by darylehret on 28 March 2012 - 01:03
"How to Evaluate a Breeding Program That Fits Your Specific Needs" sounds like an appropriate title.
Anyway, Blitzen, pretty much all of my purchased dogs have been "pet quality", and if they're not working and breeding quality as well, they're returned or quickly sold. I once purchased a unilateral cryptorchid that was by necessity neutered, sold by myself, and then replaced by the breeder. Unfortunately, the replacement was a genetic failure as well, and though very dearly loved, was sadly put to rest from her very debilitating condition. There were no formal "health clearances" that could have saved either dog from being brought into the world, though the same involved producers have been continuously utitlized, knowingly, and most likely with similar effect. But, they "met all the basic requirements", I guess.
Anyway, Blitzen, pretty much all of my purchased dogs have been "pet quality", and if they're not working and breeding quality as well, they're returned or quickly sold. I once purchased a unilateral cryptorchid that was by necessity neutered, sold by myself, and then replaced by the breeder. Unfortunately, the replacement was a genetic failure as well, and though very dearly loved, was sadly put to rest from her very debilitating condition. There were no formal "health clearances" that could have saved either dog from being brought into the world, though the same involved producers have been continuously utitlized, knowingly, and most likely with similar effect. But, they "met all the basic requirements", I guess.
by GSDPACK on 28 March 2012 - 02:03
Daryl, I am going to disagree with you.
Just because these requirements are met in breeding dogs, it does not mean that it has to end there.
Many dogs in the past did not exhibit any problems until they were worked hard and injured and then arthritis sat in. Genetics are a BITCH... you can match up dogs to the best of your knowledge, try to the best you can and still here and there some crap shows up. happens to the best, most knowledgeable breeders. However, these breeders at least did the minimum to make sure that the "enter" products is at least that: approved by the standard. Nobody said only the WUSV competitors should be bred, nobody said that only the dogs with 50 health tests should be bred.
At least the minimum should be addressed. I ordered 4 DM test kits for my male...LOL and every SINGLE ONE of them was sent to Czech to DM the dogs my clients were looking into purchasing. Most of the people who purchased the dogs continued in more tests. EVERY single one of the breeders required the minimum to breed the dog: certified hips, elbows, title breed survey, show rating (some happier than others). All of them were informed about the dog, results and they all had pretty high standards when it came to importing the dogs for their program. There is plenty of them out there. A lot of them maintain the dogs by taking them to clubs, maybe doing AKC, tracking or whatever the heck they find to do to spend some time with the dogs on daily basis.
All of them were working line breeders as I know squat about show line dogs.
But I always say "when I want to do something, I find a way, when I don't....I find load of excuses" this goes for everyone... excuses, excuses....
GSD You know I cant write worth of crap but I am good in research papers that could put you to sleep just looking at them.... at your service, lol
Just because these requirements are met in breeding dogs, it does not mean that it has to end there.
Many dogs in the past did not exhibit any problems until they were worked hard and injured and then arthritis sat in. Genetics are a BITCH... you can match up dogs to the best of your knowledge, try to the best you can and still here and there some crap shows up. happens to the best, most knowledgeable breeders. However, these breeders at least did the minimum to make sure that the "enter" products is at least that: approved by the standard. Nobody said only the WUSV competitors should be bred, nobody said that only the dogs with 50 health tests should be bred.
At least the minimum should be addressed. I ordered 4 DM test kits for my male...LOL and every SINGLE ONE of them was sent to Czech to DM the dogs my clients were looking into purchasing. Most of the people who purchased the dogs continued in more tests. EVERY single one of the breeders required the minimum to breed the dog: certified hips, elbows, title breed survey, show rating (some happier than others). All of them were informed about the dog, results and they all had pretty high standards when it came to importing the dogs for their program. There is plenty of them out there. A lot of them maintain the dogs by taking them to clubs, maybe doing AKC, tracking or whatever the heck they find to do to spend some time with the dogs on daily basis.
All of them were working line breeders as I know squat about show line dogs.
But I always say "when I want to do something, I find a way, when I don't....I find load of excuses" this goes for everyone... excuses, excuses....
GSD You know I cant write worth of crap but I am good in research papers that could put you to sleep just looking at them.... at your service, lol
by Chaz Reinhold on 28 March 2012 - 02:03
Guess I'm easy. I just want a good dog.
by Blitzen on 28 March 2012 - 02:03
Daryl, do you think that a breeder should do any health or performance tests prior to breeding a litter?
by GSDPACK on 28 March 2012 - 02:03
Chaz.... Bob thinks he is a good dog... I think he is an ass... how do I decide? LOL
by Chaz Reinhold on 28 March 2012 - 03:03
Lol. It is always what you think. My dog thinks he is the world.
by darylehret on 28 March 2012 - 05:03
GSDPack, what exactly were you disagreeing with? I agree that breeders could do MORE, but many won't, even when the obvious truth ain't pretty. Breeders that appear to meet the "ethical minimum" might not be so "ethical" when they persist to produce the same results with the same producers. Multiple instances of detrimental results should be more obvious than a test, and there are still "excuses" to breed?! Where's the ethics in that?
Blitzen, where did I ever say I don't health test? You are taking someone else's words, not mine, too far out of context. If I don't respond to every onslaught of inquiries directed at me, is that supposed to be an admission of guilt? If I say "AKC is no big deal", then suddenly I don't register my puppies? Why don't you worry less about me for now, okay?
Blitzen, where did I ever say I don't health test? You are taking someone else's words, not mine, too far out of context. If I don't respond to every onslaught of inquiries directed at me, is that supposed to be an admission of guilt? If I say "AKC is no big deal", then suddenly I don't register my puppies? Why don't you worry less about me for now, okay?
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