Sport vs Breed worthiness Test - Page 3

Over here if a Trial is up to 10 Dogs and Handlers then they use one Judge sometimes two, if you get 11 dogs or over two sometimes three Judges, 20 or more three Judges
One Judge does the Tracking Phase one the Obed and the other Protection
Sometimes if you have 12 plus Dogs you have three Judges depends on who is organising the trial
For all big Trials you have three Judges
Steve

Olympic style judging is a idea but i agree for a small club it is cost prohibititve.

I know i,ve stated this before but I believe a good start would be to only allow club level events to award the Sch2. Then each region would have 3 trials spaced thru out the year and at this trial the dogs would get a mandatory conformation rating, Kore, and trial for the Sch 3 title all dogs all lines same criteria for all dogs being judged. This would increase dogs in the breed survey and help us build a registry and get more consistency in the title awarding all dogs judged by the same preformance judges and worked by the same helpers. This in my opinion would be a good start along with a improved working trial criteria.

Bob I gotta disagree  as someone who likes to show his dog that would extremly limit my possibilities for doing so.

How do you handle dog that are alternative or mix breeds?

I really think that the people that are activly showing their dogs are not going out with with dogs that just get by..

Different helpers, different fields different  weather, etc all provide a better test thruogh diversity of the trial situation.

Jeff

Maybe both could happen.
How about the regionals being treated more like something other than just another trial.
Maybe at each of the regionals the dog should be put through a full test such as Bob suggests with conformation, koer, and performance evaluations.
Should herding also be included?
Maybe it should be that a dog has to earn his Sch3 at a regional and if it is successful then it can be entered at club shows as a Sch3. Until then it could only go as high as a Sch2 at club events.

I would like to have the attack on handler reinstated for SchH1.  Also, I would love to see the old courage test.  When the helper ran away from the dog, then flipped directions and ran toward the dog.  It lets you see the drives change in the dog.  Let the helpers quit "helping".  If a dog will run, show us.  Then we wouldn't have to keep seeing some of the weak dogs. 

I bred to a SchH1 dog who is tough, strong, and has a super temperment.  Many have asked why I didn't breed my SchH3 bitch to a SchH3 dog. I couldn't find a SchH3 dog with the quality, temperment, and a great pedigree matching up to my bitch.  You can't go by a title anymore.  You must see the dogs work on a helper who will put some heat to them....not all those wussy prey bites.

Years ago, lots of big handlers had dogs chased at the nationals.  Now, someones feelings might get hurt. 

von s
That makes a lot of sense, Yes, a good idea, then you will see how brave and changes in drive the dog really has,
Steve

I,m glad i,m not the only one who has these thought,s. As owners and trainers we must make sure to expose out dogs to more then 6 bilnds in order but varied sceniro,s and training that shows the dogs true character and drive. It may not make the higest "point" dog out there but it does make a better dog.  

Bob. as you have probably already noticed, I am very shy about expressing my opinion.

However, If you don't mind views from someone who knows nothing about the German GSD a year ago, (when I pop up here )  here goes.

When I first determined to leave the AKC world and get a "real" GSD, I honestly did not know that the GSD was divided into W/L, S/L. My only contact with a "German" dogs was Aron, owned by Fred Lanting.

This was a very serious dog, Sch. 3, and  not inclined to be friendly.

Fred asked me to "gait" him for pictures at a show and I was very nervous to be "out on an island" with him. However, all went well and my impression of the German dog was formed by this single encounter. This was a very serious dog.

So, imagine my surprise many years later, when I decide I want a "serious" dog also, go to Germany for the Sieger show and see many of the same issues that I wish to abandon the Am. S/L. for. Weak nerves, sloppy rears, bad backs, very poor bite work from dogs that rate very high in the end.

So, this is my opinion so far. I don't think the "system" is at fault. But I do feel that that those who administer the system are at fault. Else, how do so many dogs with very well known "character" issues advance to the top levels.

My solution would be all dogs who hope for VA level must be presented to a 3 judge panel of "working" judges. These people are less inclined to be influenced by "anatomy". and I think a consensus could easily be reached on character. Then present these dogs to the S/L (anatomy) judges for final placings in the Sieger show.

After all, what is the GSD supposed to be first, perfect anatomy or perfect character.

Rik

Regardless if you train SCH or some more harder sport I still think what really counts is that the breeders are picky and selective abut what they breed and don´t just look at scores due to the fact that its´hard to test the dog for everything in a trial, and it´s a lot of training behind it. Intressting someone mentioned the old form of SCH-courage test, where the decoy runs away from the dog and the turns against it, this is still done, and also many more different exercises, like real searches for people and also article-search in the swedish form of SCH.