Max would Cry - Page 3

Susie, you must have missed my earlier link.  it was U.C . Davis that did the genetic research. I'd have to say no one could doubt their research.

Genetic testing was also done that proved Franka was the product of the two dogs given as her parents.

https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/dog/GermanShepherdPanda.php

Sun, it doesn´t matter WHO tested, it only matters WHAT they tested....
In case they only tested for parentage, it´s useless -
that´s why I asked.

Just reread the link: They tested one dog ( I really want to know based on what ? ), and came to the conclusion that " Heterozygous (1 copy of the mutation) dogs do not have any health defects associated with this pattern. "
That´s a brave statement...

I would really like to read the scientific report.

@Sunsilver:

"I am not aware of anyone in Oz who actually deliberately bred Pandas."

I was just stating that it wasn't an "American only" issue and that it has happened in other countries.

"If you look at Franka's pedigree, you will see just WHY so many Pandas can work."

Being that she's so far removed from current day pandas, I'm just saying that it's surprising that being bred "for color" hasn't killed their working drive. I had a dog with working parents that couldn't work its way out of a wet paper bag, but I also have had a dog three generations removed from working titles that had the drives to work.

Because of that over here we need to train and title our breeding stock prior to breeding - working titles will increase the percentage of offspring able to work, but it´s never a matter of course.

It´s always about the percentage of likelihood - not more, not less.

Brody Pheya Of Yentl's Yard has been a long heated topic for years on the German Shepherd forms I have no problem with colored dogs the have their place but at the same time it concerning when a Panda "mutation" gets into the pedigree because unlike the Livers and Blues who need two copies of the gene one from each parent to show color, Panda only needs one meaning one a dog has Panda in the line it can pop up again and again. (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG PANDA AND PIEBALL ARE NOT MY THING)  Panda so far is the only mutation in the German Shepherd that I know of color wise, because Panda doesn't keep the coat of the German Shepherd in my opinion it looks like a mutt along with Pieballs.

Now back onto Brody Pheya Of Yentl's Yard hes been the talk of a lot of heated debates as I said because of Color Dilution Alopecia (CDA) I have no experience with his lines but it makes me want to steer away.

I have three livers, all are starting in different venues in my hometown

Molly, CGC, Training in Rally Obedience, therapy dog
Storm, Agility
Panzer, Training for CGC, Obedience and will be working towards BH than IPO

I know a lady who actually prefers livers and works one in Search and Rescue she has noticed when her dog finds someone people have a better time connecting with a breed that doesn't completely look like a German Shepherd as some people associate fear with the breed, to a person that knows a German Shepherd they can tell its a German Shepherd but to a untrained eye it looks like a mutt because the color is off.

Because these colors are considered flawed this is where greed takes over, and the standards for this breed go out the window, it is possible to still have a standard even when producing these colors, you know how many pedigrees actually are carriers or the gene? A LOT, showline, working. Do the research. If we opened up these colors what is the harm? Less puppies culled because of a color fault? You have a choice if you want to breed with a colored dog or not. In my opinion it would open up more diversity in the lines, make these dogs less "rare" to those that want to own them at least they can look for a responsible breeder instead of just a puppy mill producing just color, and down the line if you don't want the color you can breed it out of the pedigree so again what is the big deal?

They are allowed to be bred and registered in the United States…no one is stopping the breeders from producing them and following higher standards than just color. It has everything to do with greed and nothing to do with genetic diversity. It’s easier to just breed for the panda coloring and ask $3000 a puppy than it is to actually prove your dog and get $2000 a pup. No one in the United States is stopping anyone from using them as breeding stock, but until they’re proven to be BETTER workers than accepted colors, no one will use them. The genetic diversity you’re claiming they’d bring to the table is greatly overstated. One or two dogs isn’t going to affect the breed in any real sense. Until the dogs are worked and proving themselves against their “regular” colored cousins, any discussion of breeding them is a moot point.

DUE TO the genetic diversity of the “regular” colors, the chances of getting a good working dog are much higher than if you were just searching for an off-color so the majority of successful trainers are always going to lean that way anyways. On top of that, most people still do search out standard colors and aren’t into getting an off-color because they want to be different. The idea that automatic disqualification from the AKC ring or the SV ring is preventing these dogs from being bred properly is laughable. Not a single working line dog would be welcome in the AKC ring, they wouldn’t be kicked out, but they don’t stand any chance of pointing. And although they’re more welcome in the SV ring, the majority still aren’t shown or breed surveyed in the United States like is required by the SV system, once they’ve proven their working ability (or haven’t) they’ll be bred anyways. It’s the beauty and curse of living in America.

Susie...My post should read.
The AKC German Shepherds who are white, are in the GSD section.

There is a breed standard for every breed, not only the GSD...
You want to breed for colors? Maybe for flopping ears, too? Giant size? Dwarfs? Curled tails?
According to the breed standard you have no " choice ".
"Diversity in the lines" ? No different "lines" according to you...so what?