Wobbly hinglegs in a Show Quality Pupppies - Page 3

Brittany: You might want to checkout this video: http://youtu.be/SV7elIy_Aoo?t=28s

The above is the reason why I walked completely away from the GSD showlines and moved totally into working lines.  Used to have "normal" looking showline dogs 20 years back, when I used to own them but the ones shown in the above video are more the norm nowadays. 

Could not believe what that fool who was judging the Crufts show was saying....about the showline dogs on display being the breed-standard and that the "normal and functional" working line dogs are not !  Time to gut the whole showline GSD in its entireity, and start over, IMHO, if this is the final version of  Max Von Stephanitz's vision for his breed.

I am currently in India as an expat and happened to take my working line dogs to a local GSD show (being judged by an SV judge from Germany) and the totality of the showline dogs on display were of the type shown in the video above.   I did not show my dogs but while just hanging around there, dozens of people were beelining for my dogs (Sable and Bi-color working line) and were admiring the solidity of their build and structure (vis-a-vis the miserable wobbly-showlines that they were attuned to seeing).....the locals had never known that GSDs come in Sable and non-saddleback format, with rock-solid and obviously healthy construction....and of course a lively and dynamic demeanor that they never knew the GSDs had.  In fact, they had never seen a live working line GSD in their entire lives and about the existence of such functional creatures in the GSD world..LOL !

Now I also have and breed some "straight up" showlines.
In fact, some of my most solid, sturdy pups are out of my Ursus grand daughter, mated with my sisters male, that is 1/2 American Showline.
I can't for the life of me, figure out WHY people breed that way.
And yes, most of my pups do go to pet homes. But not aaall.
I have a woman that is doing sch with one of these pups.
I told her I will give her another pup, IF she gets a title, cause after all, there is American in there.
I believe a lot of these week, wobbly pups,dogs are a direct result of poor diet and not enough exercise.
I really don't get it when people say NOT to feed pups high protein puppy food, and NOT to let them do too much.
All my dogs and pups, from 3 weeks on get high protein high fat diets.
They are not locked up or locked in. They can rrun,jump and play til their hearts desire.
My mother dogs while nursing can eat however much food she wants (needs), even if that means I load her bowl up and juice it up 3 times a day, along with her dry that is available 24/7.
The first week esp., I spend lots of time rotating pups so no one pup has to struggle and fight for their fair sheare.
And while I understand that a plastic pool makes for easy clean up, my pups are born and kept in a whelping room, withwarm blankets and a heating pad.
They are as well cared for as I can possibly care for them
I think lots of them loose wobbly legs come from a lack of prper care.
Do you think that a nursing pup, laying on a smooth surface with nothing to grasp is good for them hind legs.
Think about it. Them bones are soft. Could it possibly be good for them little legs to keep trying to grab. And than. You see dogs that have almost no hip sockets.

Can you really wonder why?

Sunsilver, considering who the judge was,  it is not surprising that particualr bitch won BOB at that show.  I can appreicate a nice conformation dog, but Westminister is an ALL BREED show.  The judging should be according to the standard.  What Jimmy Moses put up was what breeders like himself has developed the breed to be, A SPECIALITY dog, something they fabericated in their mind... Something they created for the entertainment of man.  So sad but true.  As I understand that female is 8.5 years old and this was supposed to be her retirement debute.  Oddly enough that girl, for her age did not have one gray fur on her muzzle.  Com'on now, not one dog of any breed I know will be free of any gray fur.  That's just one example of the extremes some people will go through for the selfish entertainment of man. 

OH by the way, the first dog that entered the ring handled by the young girl was more correct than the BOB winner.   There was also a few other females that was more correct that should have won before that BOB bitch.  WHEW! Just my opinion.  

Now keep in mind I did my fair share of AKC conformation showing, breeding and owning AKC CHs.  SO I am making this statement with an open mind. Also to show that not all conformation people are supporters of the way the showline GSDs, German or American has become.

HUtchins, I'd say that's a very accurate assessment. However, I have an 11 yr. old WL male with not a single gray hair on his muzzle, and a 6 yr. old female with quite a bit of grey. So, it depends on the dog, and I wouldn't take the lack of grey to mean the dog is dyed (thouhg it wouldn't surprise me to find she WAS!) However, lots of dogs in her ped. with very dark, melanistic pigment.

IMO< the dog with the most solid hocks was the Imp-Cen dog, Diamonds are Forever. But of course, she didn't have that spectacular sidegait Jimmy was looking for...

My last male was 14 when he died and he never had a speck of gray

Silversun,  I firmly believe that WL dogs can handle stress alot better than SL GSDs. Therefore if stress is a reason for grey fur, I would understand why your WL boy didn't have grey hair.  I would lay bets that bitch has grey on her muzzle.  Did you watch the video till the end? Did you see the time that was taken to make sure they got the perfect picture.  Jimmy had a special interest in that bitch. He went out of his way to make sure her fur was perfectly in place. How many judges have you seen actually put their hands on to help with the dogs when taking pictures to the extent that he did with that dog.  There were other difficult dogs there taking pictures. NOT ONCE did he try to help the handler stack the other dogs.  Freakin Politics!!!  Maybe I am ranting too much. But it infuriates me to see what is happening.  

Hutchins, no, I could't be bothered watching the taking of the photos. It was a very long video, and I had other things to do!

Interesting that my 6 year old is the one with the grey, and she's a GSL/ASL cross! However, I've had her since she was a pup, while my WL dog was a rescue, and tied to a chain for the first 3 years of his life. So, he's definitely the one that's had more stress.

I really don't believe grey hair has anything to do with stress, though. It's genetics related. My female has very faded pigment, so of course she's going prematurely grey!

people seem to love or hate Jimmy, but it is true that he pretty much made the American show shepherd what it is today.  Before Jimmy and Lance, the dogs still had some up close German influence. From that time on, the Am. dog is almost 100% Lance. The breeders who resisted that influence were simply swept aside. The guy was always very helpful to me so I have no poor comments to make. The dogs speak for themselves.

Professional breeders/handlers do not live in a fairy tale land where everyone is doing what is best for the breed. They do what is best for themselves and their financial interest and they are ruthless. I think Hutchins comments come from having seen this first hand.

Rik, As you well know, BOTH you and I had our fair share in the AKC conformation ring.  We BOTH have been there and DONE THAT.  Not sure if its a good thing or not, but to me, it worth it for the experience.    

As for Jimmy, I had the pleasure of being in his presence on more than one occasion. He was a classy man.  Could come across as arrogant at times, but for the most part he was great to be around.  At the time I was showing a sable bitch which Jimmy seemed to like alot. He would always let me know his thoughts. He even suggested judges I should take her to. He even gave me pointers to help while showing her.  However  I only knew the Jimmy that was a handler, not the Judge Jimmy.  

I have nothing against Jimmy Moses the handler I knew.  I have nothing against Jimmy Moses the judge.  I do however have my own idea of the judging job he did at Westminster.  I think it was wrong of Jimmy to take advantage of his judging assignment to award BOB to a GSD that does not represent the breed standard as it SHOULD BE.  Although his BOB bitch was really nice and everything specialty breeders developed the breed into what they want it to be, it is not fair to the rest of the breeders that breed to try to keep the GSD what the breed standard says it should be.
To help save the original breed, Jimmy should have judged the breed correctly to the breed standard.  There were several there that was more closely to the breed standard than that bitch he put up. That was what I meant when I said he had a "special" interest in that bitch.  Special in the sense he was probably the most influential breeder to change the American GSD to the speciality type dogs they have become.

JMO

Thanks Rik for trying to help me clarifiy myself and my thoughts.  

Since both of you have lots of experience in the American show ring, I'd be very interested to hear both your opinions on which dog/bitch you think SHOULD have won.