crazy plan - stop me please - Page 3

My perspective would be to look around for an adult female (proven with good results from prior litters) or a yearling that has already exhibited the traits that you are looking for, and pick her up.

Alternately, look at a female who meets with your specs, and has already had litters that you can examine and be satisfied with the quality, and then go for a good female puppy out of her next litter (even better if it is a repeat of a successful, high quality litter).

Your plan as it stands, has a lot of variables that I would frankly would not be comfortable with, and thus I would not do it.  I think there is a certain degree of unpredictability, even if EVERTHING in your plan went exactly as expected.

Nans & aakays all true - what would not make me buy the female is i do not want a bunch of dogs to own, that simple - i want to own only the dogs i can provide the work for - feeding/housing is not an issue as far as money goes it is more giving them the work they need, if i can't do that i don't get a dog to rot in a kennel.

vonnisk i do not understand what this means;

"....I know somewhere on this green earth that has the same lines is someone and it ..."

secondly i am not interested in papers if you mean breed papers? or did you mean a contract. i would get a legal contract for sure but would not register the litter personally. the breeder/owner of the female might do that but means nothing to me.

Oh OK I get it/ You don't care about your puppy having any papers or pedigree. OK that's fair. Well I don't know you'll just have to work it out................But good luck and I'd be interested to hear how it turns out and the pedigree to these super dogs............

everyone who owns a dog should think that their dog is a super dog, for me personally  - screw what anyone else thinks about my dog.

Jenni78,,

What makes a bitch "the best"? If the bitch is so great, why is there a problem "being allowed" to use a certain male? If a stud owner is refusing, I would think they may have very good reason, and possibly know something you don't. I would be very careful assuming it's because they are afraid you'd then have something better than what they have. I have never been refused the stud of my choice- on the contrary, the stud owners were thrilled to have a nice bitch to breed with their male to increase the quality offspring out there bearing their male's name, if you want to look at it from a business/ego standpoint. From a dog standpoint, they're happy to use their male to produce better and better specimens of the breed we love.

Hi Jenni78

They want to be the ones that control their lines(they imported years ago), they push other males that don't offer what you are looking for. And if you breed better dogs then them, they loose the $$$, There is competion going on all the time. They sell the pups saying mains and give you limited and play games to sign them up. Then they want your bitch in their kennel, under their prefix. Then they ask $7k to up your papers. It goes on and on with the things that are wrong. My dog being told she is the best from her lines and with the right training would of shown it even better. Everything with my bitch is in the right place, except where she lives, with me.  Then the male chosen would have made HD due to the line breeding done through out their generations by these breeders, just to have me fail and look bad.
Sadly I say many people here don't look at it for the dog but an extention to an ego, and you can't have that if someone takes it away.

Where do you live and what kind of lines are we talking about? 

My experience with stud owners has been great. They have loved my bitch and been very happy to breed to her, have sent me puppy buyers even when the sire wasn't their dog for that litter, and recently, I have had stud owners trying to get me to breed her once more, at no cost to me, so they can keep a pup, though I've declared her retired.

I'm honestly not seeing the circumstances that you're talking about, so I'm figuring we must be involved in very different aspects of the same breed. FYI, I know nothing of the show world. My dogs are all working lines and while any outside stud I've used was V rated and KKL1, performance and temperament were the main criteria. I can easily imagine when you're competing in show rings where looks and looks alone win, the attitudes may change. Is this what you're talking about? 

Jenni78, there are some folks who don't breed their studs (and stock of frozen semen) to outside bitches (regardless of how good the bitches are, or how well they would compliment the stud in question) and use them exclusively for their own breeding programs.  An example is one whose spelling you corrected recently (V D H), when aadilah dropped that misspelled name in one of her posts.

 So you retired Capri ?  .

Thank you aaykay. I live in Australia. And yes with dogs we are down under. :)

There has been so much line breeding or breeding to one dog and everyone has it in their lines makes it hard as well.

Ashah, thanks for the PM. WOW. Interesting. Learn somethin' new every day!

Aaykay, yes, she's done. Or, I should say, I'm done. For a while at least. The mentality of so-called "working dog people" has started to affect my blood pressure.   She's in heat right now and I've had a few phone calls from people picking out studs for me. They don't believe me. LOL  I'm not spaying her, she's only 5 years old, but it'll be little while before I have another litter. She has a few daughters close to being titled and ready to carry the torch. Her grand kids are doing well, also, so she's done enough. I would hate to jinx her perfect delivery record- I'd rather quit while we're ahead and she's healthy and strong. No c-sections, no drugs, no special help, no heat lamps, no interference, etc...why push my luck? If I had the PERFECT male that I absolutely MUST have a pup from, then I would breed her again. But unless Caleb can be resurrected, she's done. 

Ashah, email me. I may have some ideas for you now that I understand your plight a bit better.