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by Ryanhaus on 30 July 2012 - 12:07
sandandconfused,
Sorry to have posted about your girl like she had already passed,
it is good to hear she is still with you.
Let us know how your new pups are doing....
I can understand how you wanted to throw in the towel and stop breeding, I too have felt the same way as I have been breeding for a number of years, I was blindsided when my apparently healthy female gave birth to weak and stillborn pups which out of about a dozen(stopped counting).. only two survived.
I felt like I should have seen it coming, but even if I had there would have been dead pups, my female had contracted kennel cough 3 weeks before whelping which led to her having the herpes virus, which then in turn led to stillborn and weak pups, a big lesson learned, but something I had to figure out myself, as you said at the worst maybe you would have a pup with undescended testicles.
Good luck in diagnosing the problem.
Sorry to have posted about your girl like she had already passed,
it is good to hear she is still with you.
Let us know how your new pups are doing....
I can understand how you wanted to throw in the towel and stop breeding, I too have felt the same way as I have been breeding for a number of years, I was blindsided when my apparently healthy female gave birth to weak and stillborn pups which out of about a dozen(stopped counting).. only two survived.
I felt like I should have seen it coming, but even if I had there would have been dead pups, my female had contracted kennel cough 3 weeks before whelping which led to her having the herpes virus, which then in turn led to stillborn and weak pups, a big lesson learned, but something I had to figure out myself, as you said at the worst maybe you would have a pup with undescended testicles.
Good luck in diagnosing the problem.
by Krazy Bout K9s on 30 July 2012 - 13:07
We took in a 2 1/2 yr old RESCUE, that my partner decided to adopt. She was way too young at about 5 1/2 yrs old to go, she ended up swollen and couldn't keep up, walk and lay down, it all happened suddenly and they rushed her to the emergency vet and found the heart disease, the vet was surprised she lived and kept going as long as she did, she wouldn't give up, they were heartbroken, beautiful dog from a breeder in the Spokane, WA area. Great protector and family dog. Very smart and much loved. Karen still can't talk about her without crying, that was 2 yrs ago. she was a very special GSD. One of a kind. So sad to see these wonderful pups go so early..she does have a copy of her papers, but I can't remember at this time what they are, I will contact her and see.
Steph (you all know who I am, since they won't let me post my affiliation here.)
Steph (you all know who I am, since they won't let me post my affiliation here.)
by sadandconfused on 31 July 2012 - 05:07
Zep, you just made my night. Thank you for telling your story
. I also had my girls stomach drained and the chest cavity. She spent 3 nights in the Hospital and they were shocked that she even made it at all. We are blessed to be able to also have the money to do what we needed to do. My heart goes out to those that cant financially do things like this. 
by Prager on 31 July 2012 - 16:07
The condition may be congenital thus not hereditary. That is very common in case of some heart conditions. Also she may have had parvo as a pup and that caused the problem. Even corona. That is also not hereditary. Talk to your vet and do your own research. That is beyond the scope of this forum.
You have said:
Going through this made me want to give up on Breeding but I love this to much and will definetly be more aware of the lines we choose from. Thanks again for the reply
I have a news for you. There are no perfect dogs or lines. Breeding is always a compromise in order to better the breed.
As far as breeding as such goes, you have to a have stomach for it. Every responsible breeder wanted to quit at one time or another since breeding can be frustrating and heart braking and disappointing. . Breeding is not too often prefect, as a matter of fact it usually is not. If you expect that your breeding are going to be perfect then you need to stop now. Perfection won't happen. That is since there are no perfect dogs. All you do is aiming for better and better dogs. Breeding is also and heart braking experience. Pup dies, there are runts, and dogs get injured......And then you need to deal with people. Many starting dog people think that they love dogs and do not like people and that is why they want to be breeders and trainers and so on...work with dogs. However when you deal with dogs 80% or more of it is dealing with people. You must sell the dogs and try to sell them to good people and then you will have continuous doubts that you did not. I am selling dogs for decades and because of these doubts, still, my eyes are welling when I am selling dogs and especially pups. Every time. Where are my babies going to go? And then people will call you day and night for training tips, and nutrition and that their dog which you have sold them has a problem with this or that, seeking your advice and help. Often you got to act like a shrink for reasonably or unreasonably upset owners. Then if something goes wrong, you have to make it good and replace the pup or give one for free. Thus you need to have ongoing litters. Sometimes people get sick, divorced, moving, allergic to the dog, losing house,......and they return a dog because of infinity of reasons. You have to have space for these. Some are old dogs and sick dogs and you will have to take care of them until they die. Oh yeah die. You will have old dogs and young dogs and puppies dying and that is an upsetting proposition no matter how long you do this. Trust me....
And then you will have that one ass neighbor who will bitch about your dogs and complain to authorities. There seems to always be one . ...
So if you want to be a breeder do not romanticize it to your self . You sure need to be tough as nails for this endeavor. You need to be educated and you need to understand that dogs are never perfect.
And then time. I can never take vacations with my Debby and you will think "dogs" every waken minute of your life. This is 24/7/365 Sunday or Monday, Christmas or regular day proposition.
In the end however, breeding dogs and to live with dogs is an experience like non other. After all the trouble, when you live and love a dog and dog loves you and when you see a little pup stalking a bug or when cop calls you that your dog got the bad guy or S&R dog from you saved some one's life, or just a family calls you because they think that your dog which you have sold them is the best thing in their life since ever,... And then there are the clients who became your friends. And then there are the clients whose dog died after 13 years and they want another one from you. What an honor...
These experiences and letters and calls and friendships, will make it all worth while.
Nobody ever said the life is going to be easy. As far as I am concerned easy life is boring and breeding dogs is not boring . It is a very rewarding and intense way of life.
Good luck and do not give up!
Hans
You have said:
Going through this made me want to give up on Breeding but I love this to much and will definetly be more aware of the lines we choose from. Thanks again for the reply
I have a news for you. There are no perfect dogs or lines. Breeding is always a compromise in order to better the breed.
As far as breeding as such goes, you have to a have stomach for it. Every responsible breeder wanted to quit at one time or another since breeding can be frustrating and heart braking and disappointing. . Breeding is not too often prefect, as a matter of fact it usually is not. If you expect that your breeding are going to be perfect then you need to stop now. Perfection won't happen. That is since there are no perfect dogs. All you do is aiming for better and better dogs. Breeding is also and heart braking experience. Pup dies, there are runts, and dogs get injured......And then you need to deal with people. Many starting dog people think that they love dogs and do not like people and that is why they want to be breeders and trainers and so on...work with dogs. However when you deal with dogs 80% or more of it is dealing with people. You must sell the dogs and try to sell them to good people and then you will have continuous doubts that you did not. I am selling dogs for decades and because of these doubts, still, my eyes are welling when I am selling dogs and especially pups. Every time. Where are my babies going to go? And then people will call you day and night for training tips, and nutrition and that their dog which you have sold them has a problem with this or that, seeking your advice and help. Often you got to act like a shrink for reasonably or unreasonably upset owners. Then if something goes wrong, you have to make it good and replace the pup or give one for free. Thus you need to have ongoing litters. Sometimes people get sick, divorced, moving, allergic to the dog, losing house,......and they return a dog because of infinity of reasons. You have to have space for these. Some are old dogs and sick dogs and you will have to take care of them until they die. Oh yeah die. You will have old dogs and young dogs and puppies dying and that is an upsetting proposition no matter how long you do this. Trust me....
And then you will have that one ass neighbor who will bitch about your dogs and complain to authorities. There seems to always be one . ...
So if you want to be a breeder do not romanticize it to your self . You sure need to be tough as nails for this endeavor. You need to be educated and you need to understand that dogs are never perfect.
And then time. I can never take vacations with my Debby and you will think "dogs" every waken minute of your life. This is 24/7/365 Sunday or Monday, Christmas or regular day proposition.
In the end however, breeding dogs and to live with dogs is an experience like non other. After all the trouble, when you live and love a dog and dog loves you and when you see a little pup stalking a bug or when cop calls you that your dog got the bad guy or S&R dog from you saved some one's life, or just a family calls you because they think that your dog which you have sold them is the best thing in their life since ever,... And then there are the clients who became your friends. And then there are the clients whose dog died after 13 years and they want another one from you. What an honor...
These experiences and letters and calls and friendships, will make it all worth while.
Nobody ever said the life is going to be easy. As far as I am concerned easy life is boring and breeding dogs is not boring . It is a very rewarding and intense way of life.
Good luck and do not give up!
Hans
by sadandconfused on 01 August 2012 - 14:08
Prager,
Thank you for commenting!!! Trust me I realize that there is no perfect dog. When I originally posted I was devastated to hear the news about my girl. I have given a lot of my time to our breeding program. I have only been doing this for roughly 5 yrs. I have been faced with many of the things you were talking about. I also know you have to be tough to do this. That is a big part of my problem honestly. I am a strong person but when it comes to the health and well-being of my dogs I have a very hard time dealing with the thought of losing them. They are truely family to me. Each and every one of them. We have made many friends throughout the years and will have many of those friends wanting another puppy eventually. I will not give up on this, this is my passion. My kids are a huge part of this as well and they have all said they want to continue breeding after I'm to old . LOL You are so right with the heartbreak of losing puppies, it is a tough thing to have to go through but I also realiize that it can happen no matter how hard we try to have everything go perfectly. I know that if I do my best and we still lose one, it wasnt my fault and I can move on.
I will not sell my puppies with breeding rights, there are to many people that truely dont understand what is involved and a lot of people think you can put two "pretty" German Shepherds together and create something wonderful. Honestly when I have someone sit at my table and ask about breeding, I will go through the worst and best parts of breeding. When they realize how tough it can be, they usually change their minds. I dont hide anything. This is not a money making buisness and if anyone is making a living on this please tell me how your doing it. I have such a passion for this and now so do my kids. My daughter is 13 and has decided she wants to be a Vet because she loves this also.
So again, I do understand what your saying Prager and I thank you again for your comments .
Krazy bout K9's
I'm so sorry to hear about your girl :( It is sad to see these poor babies go through this. My girl was the same way and thats why I took her in. Im just so thankful that with all the meds she is on she is doing well. My vet said if I had waited another couple of days she would have been gone. Today she doing as well as she can. She has been playing more and more everyday and I havent seen her belly swelling at all. SHe has 7 different meds daily along with supplements that she is on. If I thought for one moment she was suffering I would let her go but I look at her everyday I am thankful that I caught it in time. When her time comes I will let her go knowing that I did everything in my power to save her and I can live with that but until then she is spoiled rotten and has a wonderful life
Mirasmom
What a sad story, I know this is tuff!!! I have lost one litter and that was so hard. We go through a lot as breeders. A lot of saddness and a lot of joy!!! I will breed for years to come and except the things I cannot change. Thank you for keeping up on this story with me. I think as breeders we all need to stick together and better each other!!!
by Prager on 01 August 2012 - 16:08
I always say that dogs are here to teach us. If we listen, then there are not many better, more patient, loving, fair and truthful teachers. And when that particular dog taught us all he/she could about love , bravery, fairness, faithfulness , truth, care, and so on , then they will give us one last and final lesson. Lesson about how to deal with pain of loosing someone we love,...... and as a final lesson they die. It is not just about us being tough, ( as you and I were talking bout above) but it is also about being at peace with death as part of life.
Hans
Hans
by LilyDexter on 07 August 2012 - 21:08
My Mum's GSD had this from the age of 7 years. She was treated by the vet, but really her life was never the same after that, she sadly also went down with Dm shortly after & was PTS due to this. She was a lovely, kind & gentle girl & i was so sad to see her suffer.
She was an 'English' type, but did have Jeck Vom Noricum in about the 3rd gen, don't know whetherhe feature sin Zamps pedigree.
So sorry about your poor girl
She was an 'English' type, but did have Jeck Vom Noricum in about the 3rd gen, don't know whetherhe feature sin Zamps pedigree.
So sorry about your poor girl
by LilyDexter on 23 September 2012 - 22:09
How ironic! My GSD Willow just collapsed & died from cariomyopathy & she was also a descendent of Jeck
by Blitzen on 23 September 2012 - 22:09
From the OFA website:
Congenital Cardiac Disease and the OFA Congenital heart diseases in dogs are malformations of the heart or great vessels. The lesions characterizing congenital heart defects are present at birth and may develop more fully during perinatal and growth periods. Many congenital heart defects are thought to be genetically transmitted from parents to offspring; however, the exact modes of inheritance have not been precisely determined for all cardiovascular malformations.
Developmental Inherited Cardiac Diseases (SAS and Cardiomyopathy) At this time inherited, developmental cardiac diseases like subaortic stenosis and cardiomyopathies are difficult to monitor since there is no clear cut distinction between normal and abnormal. The OFA will modify the congenital cardiac database when a proven diagnostic modality and normal parameters by breed are established. However at this time, the OFA cardiac database should not be considered as a screening tool for these diseases.
Purpose of the OFA Cardiac Database To gather data regarding congenital heart diseases in dogs and to identify dogs which are phenotypically normal prior to use in a breeding program. For the purposes of the database, a phenotypically normal dog is defined as: 1. One without a cardiac murmur -or- 2.One with an innocent heart murmur that is found to be otherwise normal by virtue of an echocardiographic examination which includes Doppler echocardiography
Congenital Cardiac Disease and the OFA Congenital heart diseases in dogs are malformations of the heart or great vessels. The lesions characterizing congenital heart defects are present at birth and may develop more fully during perinatal and growth periods. Many congenital heart defects are thought to be genetically transmitted from parents to offspring; however, the exact modes of inheritance have not been precisely determined for all cardiovascular malformations.
Developmental Inherited Cardiac Diseases (SAS and Cardiomyopathy) At this time inherited, developmental cardiac diseases like subaortic stenosis and cardiomyopathies are difficult to monitor since there is no clear cut distinction between normal and abnormal. The OFA will modify the congenital cardiac database when a proven diagnostic modality and normal parameters by breed are established. However at this time, the OFA cardiac database should not be considered as a screening tool for these diseases.
Purpose of the OFA Cardiac Database To gather data regarding congenital heart diseases in dogs and to identify dogs which are phenotypically normal prior to use in a breeding program. For the purposes of the database, a phenotypically normal dog is defined as: 1. One without a cardiac murmur -or- 2.One with an innocent heart murmur that is found to be otherwise normal by virtue of an echocardiographic examination which includes Doppler echocardiography
by LilyDexter on 24 September 2012 - 21:09
DCM is dilated cardio mylopathy. My 6 year old GSD bitch just dropped dead with it & we did'nt even know she had a heart problem, such a shock so .She is from German lines too
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