GSD Illustrated standard - Page 2

As a matter of interest the year Dingo made Sieger there was 11 VA males. The Vice Sieger Tell v Grossen Sand produced only one top dog (Fanto v Hirschel) but this line has not bred on that well. Tell's sister Tina v Grossen Sand was also VA in 1983 and later became Siegerin but she left nothing. The only one really notable VA male from this year who left plenty was the VA 8 male Uran v Wildsteiger Land. The rest were very mediocre including the VA 3 Male Natan v Pelztierfarm who was a previous double Sieger. The production in this era from top males was weak and many of these produced poor hips.

Mackenzie

Thanks for the history lesson, Mackenzie! That's stuff I didn't know :)

I was referring to Dingo sons like

Dando Nordrheinland
Natz Arminius
Hardy Fourniermühlenbach
Natan Bergischen Tal
Rambo Reststrauch

there are others, but none of them was successful.

Uran set a mark, a lot of others did not. But it´s always much easier to look back than to guess forewards.

Sorry Susie I did not make myself clear. I was thinking of the dogs that you personally handled and saw in Dingo's time. I am already aware of all the dogs that you mention as I have seen all of them at one time or another.

Mackenzie

During Dingo´s time I was interested in SchH and PP, not in shows, I slowly started to learn show handling at that time, I was not good enough to handle any dogs you know by name in 1980 / 1983    My personal interest in showlines started with Uran, my first Siegershow was in 1981 as a visitor, 1985 I showed a Nick son, and even this dog was a damned good mover. The best mover I ever handled was in 2005/2006, but there were a lot of good dogs, some of them totally unknown.

The way that the dogs were judged in 1983 was a lot different to the way they were judged in 2005/6. In 1983 the movement was assessed at more of a working pace and far removed from the dog racing that we see now which is completely impractical for a working breed. Hermann Martin introduced the racing at the end of the class after the placings were made as a spectacle and crowd pleaser. No dog or handler could sustain that pace for a full day of work. The comparison of movement by Susie is unfair based on what was happening in 1983 and 2005/6.

Mackenzie

"The comparison of movement by Susie is unfair based on what was happening in 1983 and 2005/6."

Mack, I didn´t talk about speed but about good movement = good gaits = outreaching, groundcovering, dynamic.gaits. I didn´t even mention the word "speed". Dingo was a good mover, but he wasn´t the only one, there were and there are other dogs able to move.

He gave the will to work to several of his ( mostly female ) progeny, I really like him for that.

I am aware Susie that you did not mention speed but speed does exaggerate movement as in the length of fore reach, length of overall stride and power of stride. None of which can be sustained over a long working period. There has always been good movement in the breed but dogs did not achieve better, or, more, for other reasons. We also see more dogs scrambling around because of speed which make it more difficult to assess dog against dog in group gaiting. Movement in a working breed is not about speed but stamina and endurance with economy of movement. In the early 80's I was the ring helper for a number of German Judges when they came to the UK. All of them commented "langsam" in very class for me to slow the class down.

You have absolutely hit the nail on the head for an important reason other than movement for making Dingo Sieger when you said "he gave his progeny the WILL to work".

Mackenzie

"We also see more dogs scrambling around because of speed...."

That´s not BECAUSE of speed but mostly because of conformation problems like restricted shoulders and short upperarms combined with overangulated hindquarters. The ratio fore/hindquarter angulation has to be balanced, a dog with not 100 % perfect angulations, but within the same ratio front/rear is the better mover than the dog with restricted front/good rear vice versa. Does this make sense? It´diffult to explain - everything has to fit together, otherwise they start to "scramble" at a given point My "job" for years was to find the perfect speed for each single dog I handled - all of them different - good and bad - but all of them a combination of angulations and the will / power to move.
 

I agree with you Susie that the dog must be well constructed to move correctly but when you say "that scrambling around is not because of speed" you are completely wrong. The scrambling is brought on by speed with poor handlers unable to control the dog. As a handler you must have realised that the perfect speed for each dog differs from dog to dog and in moving your dog at the best speed for your dog does not always win classes. The handler has to use his/her skills to work the dog into the best chances for good results - scrambling and speed is not the way. Racing is for greyhounds.

Mackenzie