Training a dog vs. 'training' a child - Page 2

No insanity would be a stupid mother of 3 kids letting her toddler not only go up a pet a strange german shepherd but pull on her coat and ears.  Not once but twice.    HOW DUMB IS THAT.  And a good way to get bit.  I agree with Blitzen;  I don't let any one pet my dogs when I am out.  Things can go bad very quickly no matter how friendly my dog might be.    That poor mastiff puppy.  Can you imagine what that puppy goes through at home.  Really Bee there are harnesses for children that have a little bear backpack with a long teather on it so you can keep track of your children.  Letting your toddler roam and pet a strange  dog to me is very poor parenting.  Sorry.  Nan

When I was breeding another rule was - never sell a puppy to a family with kids under 3 years of age UNLESS they were experienced dogs owners. When a prospective owner/parent  wanted to see the puppies, I insisted that they bring the whole gang to watch how the parents interacted with  the kids when the kids interacted with the puppies. If mom and/or dad gave the impression that they expected a dog to endure anything a kid doled out, no sale. If the kids tried to get rough with the puppies, no sale. When I worked as a tech I saw too many puppies with fractured legs, pencils in eyes, object jammed up their noses, rubber bands around tails and legs etc to just assume that puppies and  young kids are always a good mix and that all parents have enough sense to understand that.

Well exactly Blitzen;  one of my friends really, really nice show bitches was sold to a family (and they knew this family) put a rubberband around the bitches mouth to try to keep from barking.  When she came back to the breeder, you could still see the mark it left on her muzzle, and unfortunately this bitch was totally freaked out from that time on for the rest of her life.  So you can imagine what I think of kids with irresponsible parents.  Another kid I sold a dog to for her 14th birthday present (of course approved by her parents) could not remember to feed my puppy;  took him back after a call from mom "gee the daughter doesn't want him anymore" thank god I had a contract that stated the dog HAD to come back to me if this family could not keep him.  JHC  Nope you will not convince me ever that kids need dogs when their parents can't even keep track of their kids.  No way in hell.  Nan

Had this incident happened to my GSD service dog boy the kid would have definitely been bit.  He did not like kids at all, anywhere near him for that matter.  Used to get really nervous and stressed when they were around so there you have it.

Nan, do you have kids? I bet not.

I'll get to the rest of the insanity later. Just don't have time now. 

It's not about liking or not liking kids, it's about the way the parents raise the kids to respect dogs or not. Some parents think a dog should take anything a kid dishes out without being provoked. Most dogs will do that, but why should they have to be subjected to unruly and in some cases, cruel kids who receive no guidance from their parents?  It's even worse with the toy breeds so many parents think will be good playmates for their 2 year olds. Their little legs snap like pencils and it doesn't  much to exert enough force to do that.

I don't allow strangers to touch my dogs because I don't want to end up in court. A dog does not have to bite to end up being labeled a vicious dog. All it takes is for a GSD to scratch, push, run into and knock over a child or adult and they are off to see their attorney. I'd rather err on the side of caution and try to avoid that scenario. I don't want my dogs to be social butterflies.

I'm not really wanting to get into the middle of an emotionally charged issue. BUUUUUUT.  I'm probally somewhere in the middle.  I have two sons so what I say is not out of lack of experience.  My dog that I had when I was a small child growing up snapped at some neighbor children when they decided that beating him with a stick was great fun.  (My parents didn't believe in a dog being on a chain or in any kind of pen so Tippy ran loose.)  My parents feeling was that a dog should take any kind of abuse regardless.  My Dad's solution to the problem was to take my dog and his 30 30 out to the woods and eliminate my dog from the equation.  I was 13 at the time, needless to say my relationship with my father changed at that moment.  But there were some important lessons that I did walk away from that with.  1.  Always expect people to do the stupidest thing and you will be seldom disappointed.  2. Don't assume peoples  intentions.  good or bad, you will usually be wrong.  and surprised.  3. The dogs only way of defending themselves is to either leave or to bite.  And if you have them on a leash you have taken that option away from them, leaving only option two.  3. Don't assume because your dog has never bit that they won't.  I don't get into fights but its a matter of what will provoke not a matter of if you do or not.  Your dog will bite its a matter of what level of provocation it takes to get there. 
I try to socialize my dogs for many situations which includes around children,  If I go to a dog show I don't need this to be the first time that my dog is put into a situation that I don't know how they will act.  If I am aware that my dog has a problem then I know the situations to avoid.  When I take my dogs out in public I don't look at it as just a matter of socializing my dog but also as an opportunity to educate those with whom I come into contact.  Some accept and some don't, once again don't be surprised if the nicest appearing people get nasty when you try to explain something and give the retort "I have had dogs all my life and I know how they will act", Its just the nature of people.

I socialize my dogs, I showed them in conformation and now OB. They need to stand for exam and allow strange judges to handle them.  I don't object to dog savy people touching my dogs, I just don't want mommie and daddy with kids who are obviously not disciplined to touch my dogs. Would they get bitten? Probably not, but I'm not going to find out for sure .

Blitzen I totally understand.  I go a person by person basis.  Some people I have right off asked them not to pet the dog based totally on how they acted.  Part of my point was that you can never be sure who the risk is with, some who you think may be ok can be the worst.