An Enlightened Society? - Page 2

Debt's are always paid in one way or another, voluntarily or by force.

Try skipping out on a debt in Las Vegas, you will find that they except not just cash and will get their pound of flesh.

Never borrow what you can't pay back, especially from a loan shark.

You can't rob Peter to pay Paul for very long before it lands you in trouble.

Now, you might think this is just another dumb idea but I think one should consider this:

When we take on debt it is not affected by the "confidence" factor. So it always just adds up. Profits, or fortunes are different in that they can change in the blink of an eye solely because of this "confidence". So no wonder the debt realistically can never be paid back.  Those so called "adjustments" aren't applied at the same time to debt.  Eventually this catches up and really, forgiving the debt if or when it gets to that would be the simplest, bloodless thing to do. One needs to appreciate society, though, too, for this to work.  IMHO

You think China is gonna say, Oh thats ok, you keep it.

Nope, definitely not China if they can get away with it. And that is the key I think... "Get Away with it."  One always needs to understand time to the Chinese is infinitely, and always on their side.

Get away with what?
We are the ones who borrowed their money, do we not owe it back?
They are not the only ones we owe money to.

"Get away with it",  meaning: Deciding they don't need the rest of society, since they aren't getting their money back any way.

Bee -  Have you thought about what would happen if the US defaulted on trillions of dollars of debt?  Without our foreign aid, the governments of some smaller countries would probably collapse.  No countries would buy or sell to us because most trade is done on credit.  US businesses located in foreign countries, particularly China, would be nationalized.  We would not get the raw materials we need for the manufacturing we still do here.  Professionals such as doctors would leave the country because any one paid by the government would be out of work.  And old and sick people would be left in hospitals unattended.  All this happened in Greece and they don't owe anywhere near what we do.  The best outcome would probably be if we could go back to being an agrarian society with everyone able to feed themselves and live off the land.  Maybe that's what we should prepare for.  Germany is now asking to check out our gold reserves.  That could mean the end of our credit rating and the value of a dollar.

And Bee, thanks for donating those 35 years of FICA payments when the debt is forgiven.  I hope you have good investments, a job you can work at till you die, and/ or family to live with if you're not expecting to get any benefits!

I personally think that the government will have to go into the energy production business and try to finance itself and debt repayment off the profits.  Right now it is supposedly illegal for our government to own or operate a business because of possible corruption, LOL.  However, government run energy production is successful in Germany and one of the Scandinavian countries.  With all the energy resources recently identified, we might be able to combine profitability and environmental safety.  I don't like the idea, because our government does not do much well.  But even revenue from leases, etc. would help.  I don't think we have many other options.

Yes, I have. And easy there Micaho... I'm talking theory over here, about an event that I don't think will happen, even if I can see it as being one way out. You can hammer out the details, I won't bog down on those at the moment. I have to follow this idea out, first.

Do you know what is interesting?  How inviolate debt is. I just did a quick little wiki-read, that supported my suspicions. Did you know it was the trading of agricultural debt that began the idea and created what is now our stock market?  

 

In 12th century France the courretiers de change were concerned with managing and regulating the debts of agricultural communities on behalf of the banks. Because these men also traded with debts, they could be called the first brokers.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market

Also, what you describe I would also agree with, should the debt be called in, sounds like a nightmare!  But that just makes it a double edge sword, in a way. What do you think China wants to do with the owning of our debt?  Now, think too, if their economy is so robust they have no need to call in a debt, or do you think they do? 

...that's all I have time for now....

That sort of illustrates my point, Micaho. When economic things are going well, "we" think it will never end. Still, China decided to own our debt, and why? I think that would be interesting to speculate about. If we need to change a problem with the system, it needs to be re-examined from the bottom, perhaps.  I think that is exactly what your topic header is about for me.  

Debt it would seem is the more powerful of the two... its opposite, being the other:  proft.  I really didn't know that.  So what should an enlightened society do? Do they hang onto the sanctity of debt at the expense of Society?  And even if we could take the absolute power away from debt, something else would have to take its place. 

Now as far as the old guys wanting to raise the ceiling for debt, well, I think it is because they aren't going to be around for the implosion, so it really isn't a problem. Only if the debt gets called in, does it become  a real disaster.  I actually knew an auto Exec. in finance who used this thinking for maxing out credit cards. So long as you keep the minimum payment going, the actual debt means nothing,  you only need to plan on continuing the practice for your lifespan. I am not like that at all personally, but I can see how one will justify debt in that way.

It would be great if in times of "prosperity" our thinking would be to save for the rainy day.  My example's for my own state that ignored their former prudence, would include the squandering of the Tobacco settlements and casino revenue from slots. Seems even the casino's are having trouble making the money they were used to.

This is all the time I have to share on this subject at the moment.  I would like to hear about what other people think about Debt in any of its contexts.