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by hexe on 02 October 2012 - 02:10
Hmm.
So I'm guessing the OP doesn't know what signs indicate that a bitch is IN heat to begin with. That's not a good start. And now the top recommendation is to allow this same owner to take on the responsibility of successfully managing the whelping of a litter?
May I ask, gsdtwo, why you would be opposed to spaying her a week or two from now? If it's your intention to become a 'breeder', well, congratulations, you've done so--but not by intention. It is with no harshness intended that I say to you that it would be far better to have your female spayed, instead of permitting her to have the puppies, and then you'll never have to worry about having to keep your dogs separated for a month at a time, two times per year. Yes, most of us here--myself included--do prefer to delay surgical sterilization of dogs until they are at least 18 months of age, but that's also based upon an owner ensuring that there is NEVER an opportunity for the female to be accidently bred prior to that age, which means the owner has enough experience to know what signs to look for that indicate the female is 'coming in season'.
If, however, you are determined to keep your female sexually intact, then yes, the safest option would be to allow her to have the litter. Then it is entirely on you to get yourself fully up to speed on what to look for that would indicate she's entering labor, what to look for that will tell you if the female is having trouble giving birth to one or more of the puppies, or if her uterus is becoming exhausted, and she needs the help of a veterinarian. You will need to QUICKLY learn how to feed an expectant female correctly, which is much trickier to do when the female is also still an adolescent who's still physically maturing herself in addition to being the sole source of nourishment for her puppies as they develop. You will need to learn when to start introducing food to the puppies, and when to start having them spend time away from their mother as they're being weaned. You'll have to prepare yourself for caring for the puppies for a full 8 weeks, at a MINIMUM, after they're born--it is not responsible to place them in new homes any earlier than 8 weeks. You won't have much time to learn all this, either--have you found out how long the typical gestation period is for dogs. so you'll know approximately when to expect the birth? If you can already answer that question, then that's a much better start than how this discussion began.
Oh, and you'll need to keep your female and her puppies completely separated from your male, at least initially, because there's no guarantee that he'll be good with newborn pups, and even if he is OK with them, there's also no guarantee that your female is going to allow him to be around them.
As for whether or not the trainer could deduce how long the female had been in season, I'm surprised that none of you believe this to be possible. If the trainer asks the owner questions as to whether the female has recently been licking her nether parts a lot more than usual, and if they've been finding small spots of blood on the floors, in the kennels or crates, on the dog's bedding, etc., and then queries the owner as to when they began seeing that, and if the spots were very red to red-black in color, or more on the pinkish side, and then takes a look at the female's vulva, a pretty darn accurate estimation is fairly simple to make once the information is collected. If the owner noticed that his male was being more attentive to his female, and was seeing what experienced breeders recognize as normal courtship behavior from both dogs (even though the owner didn't know that's what they were seeing), and can give an approximate time frame for that, that's makes it even easier to calculate about when she first came in season, and when she'd likely have been willing to stand for the male.
My vote is for spaying the female two weeks from today, and never having to worry about the problem again with these two dogs...and not having to worry about finding good homes for unexpected puppies.
So I'm guessing the OP doesn't know what signs indicate that a bitch is IN heat to begin with. That's not a good start. And now the top recommendation is to allow this same owner to take on the responsibility of successfully managing the whelping of a litter?
May I ask, gsdtwo, why you would be opposed to spaying her a week or two from now? If it's your intention to become a 'breeder', well, congratulations, you've done so--but not by intention. It is with no harshness intended that I say to you that it would be far better to have your female spayed, instead of permitting her to have the puppies, and then you'll never have to worry about having to keep your dogs separated for a month at a time, two times per year. Yes, most of us here--myself included--do prefer to delay surgical sterilization of dogs until they are at least 18 months of age, but that's also based upon an owner ensuring that there is NEVER an opportunity for the female to be accidently bred prior to that age, which means the owner has enough experience to know what signs to look for that indicate the female is 'coming in season'.
If, however, you are determined to keep your female sexually intact, then yes, the safest option would be to allow her to have the litter. Then it is entirely on you to get yourself fully up to speed on what to look for that would indicate she's entering labor, what to look for that will tell you if the female is having trouble giving birth to one or more of the puppies, or if her uterus is becoming exhausted, and she needs the help of a veterinarian. You will need to QUICKLY learn how to feed an expectant female correctly, which is much trickier to do when the female is also still an adolescent who's still physically maturing herself in addition to being the sole source of nourishment for her puppies as they develop. You will need to learn when to start introducing food to the puppies, and when to start having them spend time away from their mother as they're being weaned. You'll have to prepare yourself for caring for the puppies for a full 8 weeks, at a MINIMUM, after they're born--it is not responsible to place them in new homes any earlier than 8 weeks. You won't have much time to learn all this, either--have you found out how long the typical gestation period is for dogs. so you'll know approximately when to expect the birth? If you can already answer that question, then that's a much better start than how this discussion began.
Oh, and you'll need to keep your female and her puppies completely separated from your male, at least initially, because there's no guarantee that he'll be good with newborn pups, and even if he is OK with them, there's also no guarantee that your female is going to allow him to be around them.
As for whether or not the trainer could deduce how long the female had been in season, I'm surprised that none of you believe this to be possible. If the trainer asks the owner questions as to whether the female has recently been licking her nether parts a lot more than usual, and if they've been finding small spots of blood on the floors, in the kennels or crates, on the dog's bedding, etc., and then queries the owner as to when they began seeing that, and if the spots were very red to red-black in color, or more on the pinkish side, and then takes a look at the female's vulva, a pretty darn accurate estimation is fairly simple to make once the information is collected. If the owner noticed that his male was being more attentive to his female, and was seeing what experienced breeders recognize as normal courtship behavior from both dogs (even though the owner didn't know that's what they were seeing), and can give an approximate time frame for that, that's makes it even easier to calculate about when she first came in season, and when she'd likely have been willing to stand for the male.
My vote is for spaying the female two weeks from today, and never having to worry about the problem again with these two dogs...and not having to worry about finding good homes for unexpected puppies.
by fawndallas on 02 October 2012 - 03:10
In with hexe...... Once you have the litter, you have to be prepared for anything, including puppies with medical issues. Look through this site, there are many heart breaking threads on top dogs developing issues. What will you do?
by Sunsilver on 02 October 2012 - 04:10
Since this is her first season, you MAY get lucky. Sometimes the first heat is not a 'true' heat. This what happened with my bitch and my neutered male GSD. He showed mild interest during her first heat: licking and sniffing her rear, but not trying to mount. I doubt that she actually ovulated.
Her second heat was a true heat, and even though he was missing his family jewels, he mounted her and tied with her.
I think that if this had been a true heat, you would have noticed the male's interest. He would have been after her constantly when she hit the part of the heat where she was fertile. So, it could be you will get lucky, and there will be no puppies.
Also, it is very hard even for an experience dog person to know exactly what day of her cycle a female is on UNLESS they have been with her on a daily basis. It COULD be your trainer is mistaken and she is just starting her cycle. In that case, I would keep her away from the male until her cycle is finished. This takes about 21 days.
You must be very vigilant in keeping them apart. Males can be very very determined in getting to the female. They will chew their way out of crates, and even destroy doors or gates in their efforts to get to her. Many a breeder has had an 'oops' litter as a result of not being vigilant enough with an in-season bitch!
Her second heat was a true heat, and even though he was missing his family jewels, he mounted her and tied with her.
I think that if this had been a true heat, you would have noticed the male's interest. He would have been after her constantly when she hit the part of the heat where she was fertile. So, it could be you will get lucky, and there will be no puppies.
Also, it is very hard even for an experience dog person to know exactly what day of her cycle a female is on UNLESS they have been with her on a daily basis. It COULD be your trainer is mistaken and she is just starting her cycle. In that case, I would keep her away from the male until her cycle is finished. This takes about 21 days.
You must be very vigilant in keeping them apart. Males can be very very determined in getting to the female. They will chew their way out of crates, and even destroy doors or gates in their efforts to get to her. Many a breeder has had an 'oops' litter as a result of not being vigilant enough with an in-season bitch!
by Jenni78 on 02 October 2012 - 12:10
Go back and ask the trainer for a detailed explanation of what, exactly, he's saying and why he thinks that. Unless you don't even bother to feed those dogs, how you would not notice your male acting like a freak and your female acting like a hussy is beyond me. If nothing else, I'd think at some point you'd have looked and seen them tied. Left alone, they'd go for it any chance they got. I find it highly unusual that you missed all this if you're responsible enough to even have a trainer.
by gsdtwo on 02 October 2012 - 14:10
The main reason i was not able to detect her heat signs were because i was out of city for a few days...now that im back i have sperated them..unfortunatley it might be a little to late thats why im worried..my male is not trying to mount doea that mean he has already crossed or is the female not fully in heat? And thanks for all your replies.
by gsdtwo on 02 October 2012 - 14:10
The main reason i was not able to detect her heat signs were because i was out of city for a few days...now that im back i have sperated them..unfortunatley it might be a little to late thats why im worried..my male is not trying to mount doea that mean he has already crossed or is the female not fully in heat? And thanks for all your replies.
by fawndallas on 02 October 2012 - 15:10
Your bitch will show heat signs much longer than a few days. The actual bleed period averages 7 days. Her flirting and males starting to show interest starts happening well before this 7 day period. Males generally continue to show interest after this 7 day period too.
Have you had a vet take a look and give their opinion on if she is in heat?
Have you had a vet take a look and give their opinion on if she is in heat?
by Eldee on 02 October 2012 - 17:10
Why are not spaying your female? Please don't tell me you want to have puppies to sell. Aren't there enough German Shepherds that need good homes??
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