Very interesting info on sables! - Page 2

So are sables dominate to black and tan?

vanissk: If a sable has even 1 puppy in a lifetime that is not sable they are NOT homozygous sables. So how many litters has your dog produced with a non sable partner? How many litters in general have you had that proves your point? Has nothing to do with luck. If the breeder of your dog has mostly homozygous sables, then where is the surprise that you got one???? Anyone can PROVE the point that homozygous sables are rare just by going through this data base and following ANY sable's progeny photos. 2 sables most commonly have sables and blacks and depending on the lines, bi-colors and black and tan/red also. ANYONE can look at any sable's background and see if ALL of their relatives in the background are sable. Do your own homework.
Sable is a dominate color, in that if a puppy has the sable gene it will BE sable.
Debby

Please just allow me to point out that when Margit says in above article homosygos she refers to several successive generation not first breeding, read the whole article to understand this. If you use a sable in your breeding (with other colors) you can get in few generations other colors too, you will not be stuck with sable color.
If a sable is AA it is always short hair, you may get sable long hair when it has a recessive gene of other colors only.
She meant there is no sable GSD who will only produce sable decendents when bred to other colors (over few generations).
She didn't mean that there is not AA sables at all though they are rare. She meant show me a sable whose all descendents (sons, daughters, granddaughters and so on who are only sables, no other colors).
Ibrahim

Please if what I said above isn't clear enough I can re-write it in a better way, I'm sure she meant it as I understood it, reading the whole article and how she built up her thoughts and narrated her experience with sables and how she got black/brown out of them proves my perception of what she meant is the correct.

Just think of it like this : There is homozygous sable but the is no dominant homozygous sable GSD whose descendents and their descendents are only homozygous sables only, translation weakness. There is no dominant homozygous sable who when bred to another color will only produce homozygous sable AA.

Yes! Ibrahim! Yet there are some particular sables that will only produce sable coloring no matter who THEY are bred to. Those offspring may or may not carry the homozygous-ness even though they are all sable. Is that what you are getting out of it?
Debby

Yes

When a homozygous sable (sable + Sable) genes is bred to another color eventually some of his descendents over few generations will be of colors other than sable

Example

Homozygous sable (Sable + Sable) X black/brown (BT + BT)

will produce

Sable (Sable + BT)

Then if you again breed to Black/brown

Sable (sable + BT) X Black/brown (BT + BT)

some will be (BT + BT)

again breed to Black/brown (BT + BT) 

and you only get Black/brown (BT + BT)

And that is what Margit means by there is no dominant homozygous sable as eventually some offspring will be Black/brown or other color. Margit is not naive, the translation is not precise.

Isn't it amazing how we try so hard to explain ourselves and we think we have done a pretty good job of, but we find out it wasn't too good after all.   I hate it when I know what I am thinking and I try to put it into words but it doesn't make any sense at all.   UGH!  Glad to know Im not the only one.  

I am about to breed my sable female to a solid black male.  I cannot find any blacks in her pedigree.  It will be interesting to see what turns out.  Her first litter, bred to a sable male, produced 8 pups, 6 sables and two B&T.  But I know she and the stud have B&T in their background.  In case you are wondering, I am breeding to that stud not on colour but on working accomplishments, KK rating and word of mouth from friends that know him, how he produces and friends who want a pup from this particular breeding.  Colour plays no role.  But I'm still curious as to what it produces.