Puppy guarantees....why? - Page 2

ace that is a very  good post.  wade

Every dog/pup we have gotten domestically in the past 10 or so years has come with a guarantee. In actuality I bought the dogs I've bought because of the breeding and the guarantee was just there, I don't think it would have changed my mind either way. All the parents were hip/elbow certifed, SchH titled and Koerklassed, as far as I'm concerned if that is all done, then the breeder has done their job and I don't think a guarantee would add anything to the purchase. I've bred dogs (another breed) in the past and realize that even if you do everything to the best of your ability, Mother Nature can throw you a curve. 
The dogs we've imported from Europe didn't have a guarantee and I didn't really consider that a factor, once again I was buying based on the dog itself. 
Americans do expect a guarantee on every little thing, though. A by-product of media IMHO. Every sensationalist journalist loves to tell a story of a crooked business person, regardless of the true facts. The reporter always ends the story by telling the audience how to avoid getting ripped off by gettng a guarantee or some such nonsense.
My husband and I do professional dog training and we get potential clients who want us to guarantee the outcome! There is no way to guarantee their part in the process, so why would I take that risk? I feel the same way with a puppy I guess, since I know that the upbringing, be it the diet or the atmosphere, can totally affect the outcome, I'm not holding the breeder responsible for something they could never control. 

Ace +1 for your post. You hit the nail with that one.

I guess I'm not in the majority then. Anytime I was looking for a puppy(use to be Labs, now GSD) a guarantee wasn't even something I worried about. I made sure any breeder I was interested in did all necessary health tests & had the dogs proven in some type of training/showing/working venue.
I think people in the US tend to want more & more for their money, but without taking any responsibility themselves.

Aren't there fairly strong consumer protection laws in Germany that cover the sale of livestock.

U.S. commerce and courts are based on "caveat emptor" or let the buyer beware. In general, there is no recourse after the sale is closed unless it is laid out in writing.

I was the club contact for many years for people interested in finding a GSD. Most people buying a puppy are not as knowledgeable as many here who do have the experience to choose dogs. They may have never owned a GSD before or have any idea what they may encounter or even questions they should ask.


My advice to any novice is to get any guarantee you can get. The issue here is that most contracts are worded to protect the seller and do not offer the protection that one may think they are getting. Also, unless the seller is an honorable person, it can be very difficult and costly to enforce a guarantee.  

Puppy "guarantees" are, first off, requested or even demanded by buyers in the U.S.

Second, in the US, some court cases have held breeders responsible ("lemon" laws applying to puppies). If you do not explicitly define and limit the warranty or responsibilities of the breeder, a court is potentially able to hold a breeder liable for just about anything related to that puppy--from health problems to damages done by the dog.

Any time someone assumes a bit of the "risk" in a transaction, there is going to be a cost for that risk (this is basic economic theory). If you are importing a puppy with no contract, you are assuming all the risk--the risk of the shipping going ok, the risk that the puppy will be as described, and any health or other issues as the puppy develops. If you buy a pup in the US, you can meet the parents, meet the puppy, and have the option to see and even health check the puppy before taking it home. Then if you have a warranty, the breeder is assuming the risk for an even longer time period--sometimes years. In this scenario, the puppy costs more--you are paying the breeder to take some of the risk. I'm not saying that this is the reasoning of every breeder, but these are definitely some of the economic pressures that go into shaping what is "normal" breeding practice in the U.S.

If you'd rather pay less and not have a warranty, why not ask the breeder if they'd take some off the price if there is no warranty--some breeders will agree and some won't. It's a gamble, either way. (And health testing and consumer and peer pressure to health test play in this too--by health testing, a breeder is "stacking the deck" in his/her favor when it comes to whether they win the gamble of whether the puppy will turn out healthy. In this case, it's in the interests of both buyer and breeder (as well as the puppy!) to have the deck stacked!)

Christine

I've only had a few litters, but I never sold any pups with written gaurantee, other than that I will take a dog back if they cannot keep it (and I did take one back when a member of the pup's household developed a bad illness)

Nor have I ever bought a dog with a gaurantee.  I did the research, I personally choose the dog/pup I would take.  I would never ask someone to provide me a gaurantee on the pup/dog I buy from them, I did my part by researching the bloodlines and breeder and choosing my own pup and if the breeder did the health testing of the dog and raised the puppies in a healthy manner then they did their part.  The rest of it is all a gamble to both myself and the breeder. 

I'm equally wary of a bad puppy buyer as I am of a bad puppy breeder, too many crooks on both ends.  And this mess of gauranteeing an animal and the whole animal-rights propaganda has caused a great many people (and veterinarians) to become self-righteous in what they believe they deserve and to treat breeders like scum. 
personally I'm more wary of the breeder who touts their gaurantee than a breeder who doesn't say a word about gaurantees at all.   Why does a breeder feel the need to advertise about how special their gaurantees are?  Are their pups really in that bad of need of gauranteeing?  If so, are they really holding up their end of the gaurantee?

I'm in Canada so perhaps our perspective is different here. I recently purchased a GSD pup and I chose to buy from a breeder I knew and trusted. It was very interesting to me that the breeder's contract placed a heavy emphasis on me contacting him if there were any issues and that the dog had to be returned to him if I died or I felt I could no longer give him a home. The contract also explicitly told me about all the dumb things I was forbidden to do such as intense dog sports before the age of two or driving around with the pup unsecured in the back of a truck. I felt the contract was worded in the best interests of the dog and I had no hesitation signing the contract. I'm not interested in a health guarantee since I really don't think you can guarantee a living being- I'm more interested in having a breeder I can call if I need support.

Most people ask for guarantee's. If people are already involved in the dog world / sport / show they are more knowledgeable on the healthier lines & temperament they desire. People in the dog world also tend to know which breeders to go to or not. First time GSD owners or people that have loved the breed for generations, but not involved in sport / show will normally not have this type of information. These people use guarantees to help them sort out the BYB, or more ethical breeders. Sadly when a issue does arise with this group of buyers they are normally the ones that get hurt. You hear their stories all the time. In my area it's normally out of the same few breeders, most buyers do take advantage of the replacement puppies & keep their original dog too. Others that don't normally tell their tale to all the local trainers / vets / other breeders when they shop for their next GSD. Word of mouth can still travel fast & far.
 
I don't mind providing a guarantee. It does provide peace of mind for both the buyer & breeder. The buyer does have recourse if something should go wrong, yet liability is with in reasonable limits to the breeder. Plus if something should arise in a puppy buyers are less likely to contact the breeder back with any findings without a guarantee. Breeders need to know if something undesirable was produced by their breeding by the buyers. No ones wants an issue to arise no matter how minor. The odds a buyer contacting the breeder back with any findings without a guarantee is very low.