showline bred with workingline - Page 16

Dary,

I enjoyed talking with you on this thread.  Look forward in the future on other topics.

I love my reality. 

I have had great dogs with great breedings and wonderful breeders.   I am done with this thread.


I should blame my computer for posting this 3 times.lol

 Quote: You don't scare me with your tough talk punk! It is obvious you have no clue what you are talking about. And thank you for telling everyone you hate dogs and have no respect for them. That ought to give everyone a nice heads up not to let Jeff Oehlsen "EVALUATE" your dogs. You offer nothing to this conversation. Move along little doggy.

So, how many dogs have you worked behind a truck ?  I did it for years. Don't just start squawking, let me hear your experience with this. I want to know your firsthand experience.

I get sick of repeaters, or people that had one shit dog and it broke, so all the rest of us are judged by one persons crap dog and their experience with it.

I have ran dogs behind trucks, bikes, and just ran with them. How many do you think are breaking ? WHere is all the abuse coming from ? I love that automatic assumption. You know, I do things different from you, so fuck you, you are an abuser, and a dog hater. 

I learned a long time ago there is no reasoning with MAD men. So I am not even going to try. If you don’t find truth in my words or in between the lines I write then simply ignore them. There is no reason to carry on screaming, yelling, and cussing like a spoiled little child. Talk about manning up!

I am quite comfortable in my own skin and in the knowledge I possess. As the old saying goes, “Don’t give your pearls to pigs children.” Take it or leave it man, it is that simple. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else for that matter.

dayrlehret said "but I am saying no one has the discipline or the resources to make it succeed."

the more you run that yakker, the more your ignorance shows. You have dogs that you don't trial or title, much less breed survey and you are an authority on the GSD. You are offering up advice on what is and is not possible and you have accomplished what, other than buy foundation dogs from breeders who do trial and title, and begin selling pups.

The dog von Lotta posted shows that someone had the "discipline and resources" to produce him.

And you want to debate and educate a breeder who had the "discipline and resources" and also the knowledge to bring arguably one of the best producing working bitches ever to come to the U.S.

You really need to get out of Montana more often and see what is going on in the world.

JMO,
Rik

 Quote: I learned a long time ago there is no reasoning with MAD men. So I am not even going to try

So, that is your answer ? Not, well Jeff, I used to run my dogs like that and had ____ problems with _______ lines.

Just as I thought. When pinned down for an answer that requires actual experience, you prove without a shadow of a doubt that you have none, and are just repeating what you have been told.

As far as not having to prove anything, then why be bothered to respond ? After all, you have nothing to prove....... like running dogs is ABUSE. LOL

As far as being MAD ?? What are you, mental ? I laugh at people most of the time that flip out, as what you read and how you take things is based on your perception of the world. I am not unhappy, other than maybe the fact that people like you spread crap like running dogs behind a truck is abuse. That bothers me a little, but where I differ from what your perception of me is, I find it amusing to call people like you out. People that have no experience, but want to flap their mouths about how horrible something is, when it is not horrible at all. You don't have any actual experience. Don't respond, when you don't know the truth.

 Quote: I learned a long time ago there is no reasoning with MAD men. So I am not even going to try

So, that is your answer ? Not, well Jeff, I used to run my dogs like that and had ____ problems with _______ lines.

Just as I thought. When pinned down for an answer that requires actual experience, you prove without a shadow of a doubt that you have none, and are just repeating what you have been told.

As far as not having to prove anything, then why be bothered to respond ? After all, you have nothing to prove....... like running dogs is ABUSE. LOL

As far as being MAD ?? What are you, mental ? I laugh at people most of the time that flip out, as what you read and how you take things is based on your perception of the world. I am not unhappy, other than maybe the fact that people like you spread crap like running dogs behind a truck is abuse. That bothers me a little, but where I differ from what your perception of me is, I find it amusing to call people like you out. People that have no experience, but want to flap their mouths about how horrible something is, when it is not horrible at all. You don't have any actual experience. Don't respond, when you don't know the truth.

Jeff Oehlsen,
I do not know any FR3 dogs, crosses, workinglines or showlines., sorry. It is not my sport, so I do not pay any attention. It looks impressive and more power to you that you are active in it. Since I do not know anything about it, I do not pretend to act like a know-it-all and shut my mouth in these discussions (just like people who do not know anything about this subject here ought to stay out of it as well). I am from the EU (as you put it) but in my geographical area, nobody is involved in French Ring or Mondio, everybody just does Schutzhund.
Please ask darylehret since he is so knowledgable in genetics if Canto and/or Quanto Wienerau still matter or not. I say yes, they certainly do. It is not just "a" dog showing up in the 7th or 8th (or even further back) generation. It is the amount of times these dogs show up, Jeff. Sometimes as often as 10 or more times!!! And if you want to tell me that this does not influence anything, I have to say that you are wrong! So, no oops on my side. I am well aware how long ago this era has been. But even Vello Sieben-Faulen and his sons (Lierberg) still have a lot of influence on our breed today. And just because of that, I strongly believe that you can develop nice dogs out of carefully chosen crosses. Look at your dog's pedigree. Every time, the breeders went to a German workingline it was an outcross. They do work if a breeder is patient and thinks in generations. How do you think the breed was developed or to keep it simple, your french ring lines came into existence? It took breeders with hindsight and talent. And yes, it is true that one or two by themselves can't do it, but rest assured these crosses are being done on both sides. They are just not being publicized too much.
I do have to agree with you on what you said about the recent showlines (at least I think that is what you said - you cuss too much, has anybody ever told you that?):  They have become too soft in their ability to withstand pressure as an average, but this problem has been known and it will be fixed. Conformationwise, there have been some problems creeping up as well. Recently, there have been concerns about the lower thigh becoming too long (similar to the AKC lines), the rear angulation too exaggerated and the back too curved, in addition to a lot of the dogs being oversized. However, you can not reverse trends overnight with one generation but you have to consistently work on it. That is why the SV breed wardens and judges meetings are so important - for guidelines. These guidelines address everything - anatomy and temperament.
Naturally, sports people have a different outlook than breeders. A reputable breeder thinks in generations and what is best for the breed and not a fashion, a sports person just tries to find a good candidate to compete with.
Chris

Rik

Chris, you invaluable knowledge is lost here. Ultimately, you're the one producing titled, V rated, KKL1 dogs here, both show and work. A good dog speaks for itself and you have nothing to prove.

 Quote: Sometimes as often as 10 or more times!!! And if you want to tell me that this does not influence anything, I have to say that you are wrong! So, no oops on my side.

How are you seeing this influence 30 years later ? I did not see either dog 10 times on my dogs pedigree. Unless the dogs in question were heavily inbred for generations on either Quanto, or Canto, you are not going to see that influence from those dogs.

However, you might see an influence on the breeders to want that "look" or some other ideal that the dogs in question made them think about and like a lot.

Cursing will set you free man, feel free to say it. FUCK ! ! ! !  : ) 


Quote:  Look at your dog's pedigree. Every time, the breeders went to a German workingline it was an outcross.

More importantly, what was it that they saw in these outcrosses ? THAT is what I look at. I am not seeing this show line stuff occurring in several generations. 

The problem with the using a showline, is what are the odds that the dog will produce like him/her self in future generations, and how much greater are the odds that the dogs will actually take away from the working line ? I just don't see any reason to hop around because you made average dogs that look funny in the ass end. Then, you have to hope that future generations are at least what the former generation is, and that does not occur very often.

Breeding is a scale. You start with shit, and that is your "10" everything from then on will try and go back to average. What is the average of fuck all ? : )

Quote: And yes, it is true that one or two by themselves can't do it, but rest assured these crosses are being done on both sides. They are just not being publicized too much.

It would still show up in the pedigree, and I am positive that the show people would use them in their arguements. I actually know a few show dogs that produced very well, but who on here is bringing them up ? This is what the problem is with many that argue here on this board. They really are either fantasizing, or repeating what they thought that they heard, or are just such big fans of the show line that they will become rabid, and argue without any logic, or proof.

I have been a breeder, and I have taken risks, and bred and culled many pups. Not the GSD, but the principles work regardless of breed. Then I come on forums like this, and hear absolute bullshit being spread as the gospel truth. Maybe in EU they are crossing, but here they will take this, and their lack of knowledge of dogs, and screw the whole thing up. LOL

WAY too many soft people here to actually breed correctly. Look at the silly statement about road working your dogs is abuse. They are not looking to create their own masterpiece, they are looking to create that ONE litter. They have a stud from the EU for 5 years, and then they buy another............ from the EU. Think about that. They do not create their own, they just bobble along getting new blood from overseas, as it sell better here. There is almost NO WAY to compete against that here in the US. 

Our working dog clubs are few and far apart, with a few exceptions. It is very expensive, and I do Mondio, so there is fuck all for trials in this country, unless you have the money to wander the earth. Even then, there are still way to few. I am not making fun, it is just a fact. 

Almost every judge I have talked to has said that if he lived here, he would not travel that far to work his dogs. That is the OE advantage that EU has over us. Proximity.

Quote: I do have to agree with you on what you said about the recent showlines (at least I think that is what you said - you cuss too much, has anybody ever told you that?): They have become to

You little pipsqueek, I've been running with dogs since my wrestling days in college. You don't know shit about real road work. All you know how to do is run your mouth and try to belittle people. We ought to tie your ass to the back of a truck and drag your ass down the road and see how you like it. Keep talking smartass your only embarassing yourself.