Looking for info on Pohranicni Stranze - Page 15

 That sort of implies that he would be comfortable putting any of his studs to any of his females and get his desired result, the old czech style dog.
 Absolutely NOT!!!!. You need to match the dog's pedigrees.He / she may be great dog but  all dogs have genetic (genotype)  plus and minus and you MUST compensate for it. That is why we have so many dogs. That is what I am talking about when I get livid when people throw 2 even excellent CZ dogs together without any other consideration, knowledge of the dogs on the pedigree, and so on  and expect excellent  progeny and call it "old styl eCzech dogs".
 Prager Hans
 http://www.alpinek9.com

Smart man Prager. I like Bady too but I'm sure I can't afford him
Bady looks a bit young and not fully mature in the videos. Do you know how old he was when they were taken?
I'm betting he was less than 3. I find that there is a huge improvement in seriousness in protection work between the ages of 3 and 5, especially for males, less so for females. Six months can make a big difference on how they show. Studs don't really project their stallion look until they're 4.
Ox looks young too. Jago and Carly look more mature. Arno looks young too although he is definitely serious. Of all of them, he's probably the one I would not want to mess with in a dark alley. You can see how solid his nerves are. Bady is also very solid.
I noticed all the others have some modern West German working line up close in their pedigrees, Arno is the only one that an outsider may consider "pure Czech". What do you like about his pedigree?

Prager,

Would you mind dicussing your males that are standing at stud?

Being that Jago is a bit short according to his breed survey- has that trait been compensated in his current litter and or would you expect that to be a trait passed on to his progeny?

Also with Carly- Is Jiri using him to continue producing serious over the top protectors or is he using him to elevate some of the less serious females to create that balance you like?

How is the Arno x Bara litter you currently have looking?
 
Thanks Hans


Lee

I have watched most of the videos on the Jinopo site and I don't see any sharpness in any of the videos. Some of the dogs may have or produce it but I dont see it in the vids. I like Pard the best just going off the vids. None of the dogs are worked in defense on the vids. I wish they would show the dogs being worked in real defense on people they do not know and in unfamiliar environments. Of all the dogs I have seen vids of from Jinopo I liked Quanto and Yska the best.  

I like Quanto and I like Baro and I like Pard.  Pard is by Quanto and out of Yska. Yska is by Balli. If any of the dogs should have sharpness then it seems like it would come out in Pard's litter. Of course Jiri or Hans would have to verify if Im right or not. If you don't have FIRSTHAND knowledge of many dogs behind the ones in front of you then you are at a terrible disadvantage in producing consistent and desirable traits. I do not care for what people call "Czech" dogs these days but I am always hopeful I will stumble across one I like. 

Ibrahim,
Jinopo(?) sold Quanto and he has since been retired. I think he has been studded up until recently, so I would imagine he has some young progeny out there.

"You need to match the dog's pedigrees.He / she may be great dog but all dogs have genetic (genotype) plus and minus and you MUST compensate for it."

Exactly! Now that makes sense to me. All dogs have strengths and weaknesses. Breedings are done to enhance the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses. Thanks for the feedback Hans! Between the listed dog's descriptions, vids, forum feedback, and insights from you  Hans (+others) on dogs you like and why, I (along with others) are trying to better understand why some breeding combos are made at Jinopo.

Good questions Lee! Interesting proposed combos DDRshep!

It is very interesting to read all the observations (vids, personally seeing these dogs, owning progeny, seeing progeny, etc.) people have here and their summaries of what they observed.

Thanks to all for a constructive thread, and I'll continue to follow this topic with interest.

yoschy asked: "Being that Jago is a bit short according to his breed survey- has that trait been compensated in his current litter and or would you expect that to be a trait passed on to his progeny?

Also with Carly- Is Jiri using him to continue producing serious over the top protectors or is he using him to elevate some of the less serious females to create that balance you like?"

Excellent questions yoschy. Personally, I don't like using compensatory breeding for workinging ability or style, and temperament, but to use it for size, structure, color or pigment. I prefer to use males and females that are as close as possible or identical in working style and temperament, and use the breeding to get desired physical traits.

Bady to Janach for example to get pups with more of a DDR look as opposed to a west look. That's just a personal preference. Their work and their balance are identical.

I don't agree on using breeding to balance temperaments. Either the dog has a balanced temperament or not. And of course depending on the specific purpose, one may want a dog that is not balanced. Then just breed the same temperament type to the same temperament type. To me temperament just has too many variables and mixing it hoping to get lucky is just a gamble. Of course for someone like Jiri, I'm sure he knows the lines and dogs so well that it's less of a gamble for him.

Of course this assumes that both male and female are very high in working ability as there is no point in breeding weak females to strong males although I know lots of people in the GSD world do it (Not jinopo as you can see their females are consistently strong). Of course this discussion is not specific to the topic of this thread but to breeding philosophy in general, but this is the pedigree database, so it will be very interesting to hear Prager and Jiri's (through Prager) comments on this philosophy.