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by duke1965 on 20 February 2010 - 15:02
prager , this point
If czech line dogs born in North Dakota aren't czech (according to Prager), then west german line dogs born in the czech republic MUST be czech!
sorry I dont know how to do the quote thing
If czech line dogs born in North Dakota aren't czech (according to Prager), then west german line dogs born in the czech republic MUST be czech!
sorry I dont know how to do the quote thing
by nanu on 20 February 2010 - 21:02
Looking for info on Pohranicni Stranze
by duke1965 on 12 February 2010 - 15:02 duke1965
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 06:04 pm
interesting question killer K9 , can you tell me whats czech about hoky va pe , many czech breeders nowadays breed mostly westlines , it gets harder to find full czechline dogs in czech itsself
why do you say this? I don't see this at all. Where are you looking then?
I have a female linebred on Agar z Pohranicni Straze bred to Zar Milvel. Also an Agar z Pohranicni son out of Moli Koz Mar, several Olymp Policia daughters just xrayed and coming up to breed. When you look at these you could technically say they are 1/2 Czech 1/2 Slovak now only because there are now 2 countries. Their origins are the same.
I have to say one of my favorite males is an German/Czech cross by Olymp Policia and Assi Gevetar Teddybar.
As a breeder intending to produce something in particular, I cross that individual with supporting pedigree to likewise, regardless of Czech, Slovak, Dutch or German. I'm glad this thread has taken on a lighter side of comment.
How about this philosophy. There is a "backbone" of czech dogs that the slovak dogs were part of before the country divided. Their origin is unique to the country and so Czechoslovakian dogs as they originated. And the West German dogs are unique as are East German (does anyone ever read those kor reports on the old east german dogs and then wonder why they wanted a sharp dog?) Dutch dogs primarily because of the type of sport more popular in Holland and so on. And then the real American GDS. Didn't we do a great job?
Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com
by duke1965 on 12 February 2010 - 15:02 duke1965
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 06:04 pm
interesting question killer K9 , can you tell me whats czech about hoky va pe , many czech breeders nowadays breed mostly westlines , it gets harder to find full czechline dogs in czech itsself
why do you say this? I don't see this at all. Where are you looking then?
I have a female linebred on Agar z Pohranicni Straze bred to Zar Milvel. Also an Agar z Pohranicni son out of Moli Koz Mar, several Olymp Policia daughters just xrayed and coming up to breed. When you look at these you could technically say they are 1/2 Czech 1/2 Slovak now only because there are now 2 countries. Their origins are the same.
I have to say one of my favorite males is an German/Czech cross by Olymp Policia and Assi Gevetar Teddybar.
As a breeder intending to produce something in particular, I cross that individual with supporting pedigree to likewise, regardless of Czech, Slovak, Dutch or German. I'm glad this thread has taken on a lighter side of comment.
How about this philosophy. There is a "backbone" of czech dogs that the slovak dogs were part of before the country divided. Their origin is unique to the country and so Czechoslovakian dogs as they originated. And the West German dogs are unique as are East German (does anyone ever read those kor reports on the old east german dogs and then wonder why they wanted a sharp dog?) Dutch dogs primarily because of the type of sport more popular in Holland and so on. And then the real American GDS. Didn't we do a great job?
Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com
by darylehret on 21 February 2010 - 00:02
Wait a minute. Which ones are the "real" American GSD's? For that matter, which are the "real" Czech dogs? Prager never did answer my question (among many unanswered questions), as to what current producers he and his associate considers, that best represent the old border patrol type of breeding, that Jinopo kennels still strives to maintain.
by duke1965 on 21 February 2010 - 20:02
nancy , if you look in general in czech breeding you just see more and more westlines on the pedigrees
leefdaalhof , mohnwiese , haus melinda , nick heiligenbosch , javir and so on
you dont need to go to czech to find these bloodlines , they are everywhere
leefdaalhof , mohnwiese , haus melinda , nick heiligenbosch , javir and so on
you dont need to go to czech to find these bloodlines , they are everywhere
by jennie on 22 February 2010 - 20:02
Have the westlines added something to the czech lines that they lacked before in general, is it to be better in IPO the westlines are added or is it necessary to broaden the genepool that may be quite small for czech dogs only, or?
The only "isolated" genepool of GSDs in other countries besides the czech lines are the swedish workinglines I suppose, which doesn´t have much modern west or eastdogs in their pedigrees like in many other countries where the westlines seems to dominate the genepool. Like this dog,
www.norpatorp.se/Planerade%20kullar/Norpatorps%20Larm.html
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/437524.html
The only "isolated" genepool of GSDs in other countries besides the czech lines are the swedish workinglines I suppose, which doesn´t have much modern west or eastdogs in their pedigrees like in many other countries where the westlines seems to dominate the genepool. Like this dog,
www.norpatorp.se/Planerade%20kullar/Norpatorps%20Larm.html
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/437524.html
by Prager on 24 February 2010 - 17:02
I believe on this thread someone asked me if it is truly Klara's picture of The Klara. According to her breeder this is a picture of Klara z Pohranicni straze..jpg)
by darylehret on 24 February 2010 - 17:02
Now you're beginning to see my point, right?
That Klara had a litter here in the U.S. less than three years ago.
http://www.witmertyson.com/litters/show/2
That Klara had a litter here in the U.S. less than three years ago.
http://www.witmertyson.com/litters/show/2
by darylehret on 24 February 2010 - 17:02
by Prager on 14 March 2010 - 04:03
As far as Multiple same name dogs goes just look at the registration number.
darylehret
I asked Jiri if this is Klara z Ps and he said; yes. I will ask him again since I did not asked properly.
Also you mentioned that I have not answered many questions. You know I do have a life beside PDB. I have to clean dog shit 2x per day , feed, train dogs, answer business emails and phone calls and sometimes have to also eat and so on. Please feel free and ask me a questions which I have missed I will try to answer them.
Duke 1965
If czech line dogs born in North Dakota aren't czech (according to Prager), then west german line dogs born in the czech republic MUST be czech!
My answer to that is not really necessary since I have already answer it in other posts here. But I will answer it again. No problemo.
If a breeder in " North Dakota" puts two schlaky dogs together just because they are from Czech and does it without any knowledge what so ever of the dogs on the pedigree and then calls it The Old Czech lines ....well that chops my hide.
On the other hand if a Czech breeder with extensive genetic knowledge of dogs on the pedigree incorporates the West German or Chinese or what ever dog into the line to enhance the spirit of old style Czech working line than yes he can call it Czech line.
It is more about spirit of these dogs then about geography . The spirit of the line is based on the culture which produces it. Czech have different culture then other people thus they like to breed specific dogs. And the culture changes with time and thus me being Luddite I am trying to preserve the spirit of these old lines by studying them and the knowledge of specific dogs.
And I will say it again; the uniqueness of specifically " z Pohranicni straze" line is derived from the fact that these lines were bred by the same people who worked with them. It was done systematically and in large numbers, based on careful collection of data and statistics based on extensive testing. Even I personally confirm all my breedings with these people in order to maintain the spirit of these dogs.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
darylehret
I asked Jiri if this is Klara z Ps and he said; yes. I will ask him again since I did not asked properly.
Also you mentioned that I have not answered many questions. You know I do have a life beside PDB. I have to clean dog shit 2x per day , feed, train dogs, answer business emails and phone calls and sometimes have to also eat and so on. Please feel free and ask me a questions which I have missed I will try to answer them.
Duke 1965
If czech line dogs born in North Dakota aren't czech (according to Prager), then west german line dogs born in the czech republic MUST be czech!
My answer to that is not really necessary since I have already answer it in other posts here. But I will answer it again. No problemo.
If a breeder in " North Dakota" puts two schlaky dogs together just because they are from Czech and does it without any knowledge what so ever of the dogs on the pedigree and then calls it The Old Czech lines ....well that chops my hide.
On the other hand if a Czech breeder with extensive genetic knowledge of dogs on the pedigree incorporates the West German or Chinese or what ever dog into the line to enhance the spirit of old style Czech working line than yes he can call it Czech line.
It is more about spirit of these dogs then about geography . The spirit of the line is based on the culture which produces it. Czech have different culture then other people thus they like to breed specific dogs. And the culture changes with time and thus me being Luddite I am trying to preserve the spirit of these old lines by studying them and the knowledge of specific dogs.
And I will say it again; the uniqueness of specifically " z Pohranicni straze" line is derived from the fact that these lines were bred by the same people who worked with them. It was done systematically and in large numbers, based on careful collection of data and statistics based on extensive testing. Even I personally confirm all my breedings with these people in order to maintain the spirit of these dogs.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by darylehret on 14 March 2010 - 05:03
Believe it or not, I have a life as well, though I've been a frequent visitor these last few months. I sometimes don't post for several months to a year. Like I said before, your presence here makes it a better place than it's been in recent memory.
OK, third try here: you've stated that Jinopo kennels still strives to maintain the "old border patrol" style of breeding, so I'd like to know what current producers are the most accurate representations of this type of dog? The answer to this may seem obvious to yourself, but to me and perhaps others, it is not.
OK, third try here: you've stated that Jinopo kennels still strives to maintain the "old border patrol" style of breeding, so I'd like to know what current producers are the most accurate representations of this type of dog? The answer to this may seem obvious to yourself, but to me and perhaps others, it is not.
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