SV hip cert. compared to OFA cert. Hips - Page 1

SV will give an Eval of hips once dog hits 12 months of age or older,they dont do prelims as far as I know,as far as OFA goes they will give a prelim eval between the age of 12 months and 24 months and after the age of 24 you can get a full OFA cert number attached to the dogs AKC number-------------- Here is my question based from that info,is a dog that gets a SV a normal stamp rating any better than a dog gets a OFA prelim rating of excellent if both the dogs Xrays were taken at exactly 14 months of age ? Meaning should one eval. or cert. be reguarded more highly over the other for that point in time ?

OFA offers prelim evaluations on dogs 4 months or older.

IMO one dog would not be "better" than the other; both dogs should be free of HD. I don't get too hung up on ratings from either organization (unless they are fast normals/borderlines which IMO should be re-xrayed at a later date and re-evaluated then or NZ's that I'd personally not use for breeding). Ratings depend a lot on whether or not the dog was sedated, the quality of the xray, and the skill of the techs and how they manipulated the dog.

The systems are an apples and orange comparison. In addition to the variables Blitzen mentioned in just getting the x-ray, once the x-rays are submitted you have a very different approval process. OFA sends the x-ray to multiple vets and it's never the same group. The SV sends them to one. How can you compare the two systems when the evaluation process differs?

To add to the difference, there has never been a comparison done to determine the relationship between the two systems. There's a chart floating around that's been around long enough that people believe it, but there was never any research done to develop the chart. The lie has been repeated enough for it to have been accepted as fact.

Blitzen I agree alot of what you said,I,m not sure how many would want to xray a dog at 4 months old,I personaly see no value in it and I agree with you If i prelimed a dog at 14 months that came back fair the main reason I would consider again and also Xray at 24 months with OFA is that they might been less than fair at the older age,I am not saying I would never- ever breed a fair rated dog but I would much rather see a dog having a good or excellent rating and dog rated fair at 14 months might loose the fair rating at 24 months.

Dog1 if you read my question in the context it was given in they are apples to apples in a way,wether they be looked at by one vet or a panel of vets doesnt matter in the context given,they still have a reflective grading system to each other, Excellent for OFA equals a normal for SV,good  OFA equals fast normal for SV, a fair rating for OFA equals SV their lowest passing grade,granted I use the word equal somewhat loosely,the biggest and main reason they are not apples to apples in my book at the age of 14 months is that one group is calling it a prelim and the other group its a permanent rating not having to come back at 24 months to get the so-called final eval. My main point I,m trying to make is that just because OFA calls it a prelim it doesnt mean that it doesnt mean anything in my view at least. 

A breeder/friend xrays every "keeper" at 4 months for an OFA prelim, then again at 12 months for an SV evalutation and again at 24 months for  OFA cert. So far all have received an OFA prelim evalulation of normal, SV A1, and at 24 months, OFA good or excellent.

The person who xrays  at 4 months starts training puppies by the time they are 10 weeks. By 4 months they are ready for a new owner and they are already OB trained and worked with a helper so she had a good idea of what sort of a home they will need. A puppy that shows no promise on the sleeve isn't going to go to an IPO or breeding home. These pups go with a 100% health guarantee that includes normal hips and elbows, so she prelims them before she sells them, generally at 4 months.  The dogs are done again at 12 months for SV evaluation and again at 24 months for OFA. So far no hip or elbow incongruities for many generations and the 4 month OFA evaluation is generally the same or within one rating of the rating the dogs receive at 24 month. Why spend time training a puppy if its hips and elbows aren't normal?  If OFA is able to make correct ratings as young as 4 months, why not take advantage of that with puppies?  No one,  including pet buyers, wants a GSD with HD and UAP.

Bundishep, I can name any number of owners of large breeds, including GSD's, who have re-xrayed dogs rated fair and got goods or excellents on the second xray. I myself bred 2 males, litter brothers, one living in Utah, the other in Alaska that were both xrayed at 26 months by 2 different vets. OFA said mild HD for both. The xraying vets both said - no way, let's do them again. The next time they both got OFA good, that's an upgrade of 4 places. Fair, good, excellent, all are normal and in my experience a fair is every bit as likely to produce normal hips as is a good or an excellent. Sibling and first and second degree relative evaluations are almost as important as the dog itself. A dog with an excellent rating and sibs with moderate to severe HD is not as good a breeding candidate as the fair dog with fair or good siblings. 

Per the OFA website, a fast normal is the equivilent of an OFA borderline. That means they consider the dog's hip status to be inconclusive at the time and recommend another xray after a specific period of time, usually 6 months. OFA also states that most borderlines will go on to receive fairs or goods and a few will be rated as dysplastic.

Bundishep,

I would agree some evaluation is better than none and something done OFA at 14 months gets you in the ballpark. There are big differences between the SV and OFA proceedures as Blitzen pointed out. My experience with the two is similar but not as extensive.

This is the chart that Fred Lanting created many years ago.
If you notice that mild, moderate and severe are "ligned up" with the FCI and SV columns,
Ofa added an extra catigory of Excellent so everything to the left of Mild is different than the other systems.