Best Working line German Shepherd breeder of the Decade? - Page 11

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by ValK on 26 September 2021 - 19:09

txarkoeta

line in breeding is quite provisional thing. i'll try to put it by simple way.

let's say we have dog A, founder of bloodline A1, who become famous to be a tough dog who's potent to pass that character to descendants.
so to keep that trend in this line alive, the breeders uses equally tough bitches but even doing so, there will born some pups, who isn't strong enough to resemble by character mother and father.
what gonna happen when you start to breed those weaker dogs from that litter?
they will produce mixed quality litter in which amount of soft charactered pups would be much greater that in litter they come from.
and so on with following generation descendants. from generation to generation amount of soft dogs in breeding output just will rise.

albeit all of these dogs when kept to paternal line in matting still considered to be dogs from line A1 but the trait, which was a reason to establish line A1 is already lost.


by txarkoeta on 27 September 2021 - 02:09

Yes, that is logical but what does it have in relation to Czech or sports lines?

by ValK on 27 September 2021 - 10:09

i told you in previous response
"Czech/Slovak breeders went international market and to get a success there they need to adapt own breeding programs to (produce) required type of dogs for a major money paying segment of market."
also duke told you
"unfortunately, if you want anything else than sport you need other things than biddable,fooddriven preydog".

for average dog lovers (majority of the buyers), a dogs with strong dominant behavior (which was ideal dogs 30 years ago in Czechoslovakia and other eastern countries) are too much to handle.
domestic market too small. international market, where the money can be made, is used to soft, friendly and playful dogs.
what should do breeders, even who not adding western blood in their breeding, gonna do to be successful? they have only one solution - to wash out previous type of dogs and start to produce the type which is in demand.

by adlerbach on 27 September 2021 - 18:09

There are more old type CZ dogs out there. I am not suggesting anyone for best working dog line breeder but I have a very nice just turned year old dog out of Tom Neresnicka Dolina and Xena's Warrior z vom Weberhaus IPO 3 and he is more of an old style dog. He is large and black like his father and with medium drive but good fight drive. His hips, elbows and spine are all good. I have a Dinoso son who cannot live in the house as he never stops and I love him but he is not what I had in mind. I got Warrior's Nero z Weberhaus as a house guard hoping to fill the paws of Polo z Danaru SchH3 who was a very serious civil dog but great with me and super as a house and property guard. Nero right now is good with people and not dog aggressive but naturally very watchful. We will see..

by txarkoeta on 28 September 2021 - 03:09

A friend has a son of Dinoso and he lives with them at home and very well, I have two dogs of sports lines and I can take them in a motorhome without problem

DuganVomEichenluft

by DuganVomEichenluft on 28 September 2021 - 13:09

Amanda @ Warkonhaus produces very consistent working German Shepherds. A top notch, ethical, and honest breeder.

Koos @ van Tiekerhook ... No need for an explanation. He and his dogs are bad ass.

kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 28 September 2021 - 21:09

Valik, where do you come up with your theory of the weaker characteristics dominate the litter from? Is this some sort of new syndrome that just recently started occurring. You mention breeding strong male to strong female but end up with more weak pups.
Havn t breeders been breeding this way from the beginning and having strong dogs, with strong lines as the result of such matings. The idea that money somehow weakens the what is being produced don t really cut it.
For the thousands of shepherds bought by people that are clueless, there are plenty enough equally clueless breeders to supply that market and have enty of dogs left over.
There are an awful lot of people, esp in these times that are looking for real protection dogs, not just dogs that can learn a routine. In fact, I believe those dogs are more valuable then any cpetion dog. Someone must be supplying that market, or do. T you think there is a market for that kind of dog?
I know that there is.

by GSCat on 29 September 2021 - 07:09

by kitkat3478 on 28 September 2021 - 21:09

Valik, where do you come up with your theory of the weaker characteristics dominate the litter from? Is this some sort of new syndrome that just recently started occurring. You mention breeding strong male to strong female but end up with more weak pups.
Havn t breeders been breeding this way from the beginning and having strong dogs, with strong lines as the result of such matings. The idea that money somehow weakens the what is being produced don t really cut it.
For the thousands of shepherds bought by people that are clueless, there are plenty enough equally clueless breeders to supply that market and have enty of dogs left over.
There are an awful lot of people, esp in these times that are looking for real protection dogs, not just dogs that can learn a routine. In fact, I believe those dogs are more valuable then any cpetion dog. Someone must be supplying that market, or do. T you think there is a market for that kind of dog?
I know that there is.

 

Kitkat3478-

I think what Valk's saying is that if dogs in a line that don't strongly exhbit line qualities and/or produce line-type puppies are used for breeding, the line gets washed out.

However, if only dogs, which both strongly exhibit line qualities and produce line-type puppies, are bred, the line and its qualities will stay identifiable.

The answer in simplistic terms is if desiring to maintain the line's qualities, only breed the dogs that strongly exhibit line qualities and produce line-type puppies.  Those dogs and combinations, which don't produce line-type puppies, shouldn't be bred if the goal is to maintain or strengthen the qualities of the line and produce puppies of that type for a specific purpose.. Non-line-type puppies will still be usable for some other purpose(s) or as pets.

Throwing a little more mud in, some lines are more reinforcing to one another than others.

As an example, if I wanted to produce Line 2-type Czech WL GSD, I'd pair a Line 2 male and Line 2 female.  However, if a Line 2 female not available, I might consider a Line 4 female.  Or visa versa.  Regardless, individual lineage, qualities, temperaments, abilities, structures, health, etc. guide selection of both male and female for the intended goal(s).

 

Yes, there is a market for old schol Czech WL type GSD   Law enforcement, military, and real personal protection immediately come to mind.

 

by adlerbach on 27 September 2021 - 18:09

There are more old type CZ dogs out there. I am not suggesting anyone for best working dog line breeder but I have a very nice just turned year old dog out of Tom Neresnicka Dolina and Xena's Warrior z vom Weberhaus IPO 3 and he is more of an old style dog. He is large and black like his father and with medium drive but good fight drive. His hips, elbows and spine are all good. I have a Dinoso son who cannot live in the house as he never stops and I love him but he is not what I had in mind. I got Warrior's Nero z Weberhaus as a house guard hoping to fill the paws of Polo z Danaru SchH3 who was a very serious civil dog but great with me and super as a house and property guard. Nero right now is good with people and not dog aggressive but naturally very watchful. We will see..

 

FWIW, strategies for living in a house with non-stop Czech WL GSD are the same as required for living in a house with Racing Line and other nutty Siberian Huskies.  Doable, but requires patience, persistence, consistency, and a sense of humor.  Two or more of either (or one/some of each) in a house is "interesting" but also doable.  I put the cat(s) in charge when I'm away from home  🤣

In many decades, only one knocked over lamp, and that was a cat chasing a mouse 🙄  Stupid mouse picking my house 🤣  Dinner for kitty  🤣

 

 


by Pirschgang on 29 September 2021 - 12:09

"I have a Dinoso son who cannot live in the house as he never stops"

I think the lesson here is "be careful what you wish for with working lines". Sometimes you can bite off more than you can chew.

by GSCat on 30 September 2021 - 18:09

by Pirschgang on 29 September 2021 - 12:09

"I have a Dinoso son who cannot live in the house as he never stops"

I think the lesson here is "be careful what you wish for with working lines". Sometimes you can bite off more than you can chew.

 

Oh, so true.  And this is why so many Sibes and WL GSD get dumped, rehomed, taken to shelters/rescues, etc.  

This is why responsible breeders are careful to ensure prospective new owners are capable and willing to do necessary training and care.

 

And if one bites off more than one can chew, the dog(s) will be happy to pitch in LOL

 






 


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