Pedigree help - Should I get this puppy? - Page 3

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by Hundmutter on 16 June 2021 - 11:06

Yellow, I reckon Hired Dog is right about that; ok what he looks for in a dog may be different in degree to what you are looking for, but parents doing some sort of work does at least indicate a true GSD and not just some mutt that looks like one.  Past that, its a matter of how much 'lively' you want for yourself, not what I or someone else might want.  And individual dogs do vary. But you do need to look at how much you want this pup, based on these conversations, your dog-owning history, and so on.

As I am not an American I tend to have a different perspective, in that I would NEVER buy a pup from  video-only; I would get to know the breeder and preferably visit more than once, so I could get to know the pups and their parents at least a little before choosing. Or taking breeders advice on which to choose for me. Those visits also give us a chance to get to know the breeder and assess whether we trust them, to answer their questions of us about the home we offer and to ask them more searching things than you can on the phone or e mail.  But then although that could entail long journeys, its nothing like the distances which may be involved across the Pond. So each to his/her own.

Pricing of puppies is a bit of a minefield.  I personally would be more likely to trust a breeder whose price is a little above the 'current going rate' (which isn't such a simple thing to assess, since these days there is SO much variation !) but who is very public about what tests they have done, the results, the parent-dogs & others they own, in terms of ancestry, working achievements / results, conformation / Survey results, and so on. Anyone charging way over that sort of price, even when they are offering a trained adult, needs to be treated with caution, and needs you to ask how they justify it; as does the breeder who is either offering ridiculously cheap puppies compared to others for sale elsewhere. There is never such a thing as a free lunch.  What are these people NOT telling customers ?  Are they just cashing in on the higher demand for "Covid-pups" ?  Yes prices reflect to some extent good family HD / ED results, Haemo A & DM testing, cos you are paying for a certain amount of reassurance, and because those tests have to be paid for. [No fines for asking that question btw !]


by yellow4738 on 16 June 2021 - 12:06

Very helpful! Thanks, All!


by Rik on 16 June 2021 - 13:06

yellow, I apologize for my skepticism. there have been a lot of strange things happen here over the years.

I'm going to answer a couple of your questions and make an observation or two in as blunt a way as I can.

1. there are so many people buying GSD, many who have no idea of health issues/certs that I really doubt it affects the price point.

2. you do have the experience to know what level of drive you prefer (actually about the same level I prefer, bit lower on the scale for me probably)

3. you are talking about buying a puppy and shipping it across country, so you don't seem to be trying to "cheap out" on a pup.

4. if it were me I would take a deep breath, and re-consider a couple things you have said.

A. this breeder doesn't health check his breeding stock. I really do not know any breeders I would deal with who don't health test, but that is me. and that is at the minimum level for me.

B. breeder has several females, so probably breeds a lot. since he/she/they are not competing in any venue (work/sport/show/S&R etc.) what is the purpose of their breeding? if it's to make bank that would be the final straw for me, unless maybe I personally viewed a pup that I was interested in. and even then,

I'm going to say many times a pup may not reach the hoped for potential. the poster above said "pups are a crap shoot". I have heard that term from the beginning of my involvement in GSD and there is a reason for it.

good luck and sorry for the long post, but there are also very very few breeders that I would take their word on and they would have to be very proven, experienced/trustworthy in what I was looking for.

good luck,



by Koots on 16 June 2021 - 13:06

Yellow - where are you located (state, province, etc.)? Some posters may know breeders who health test ALL breeding dogs and also know what the sire/dam produce temperament-wise. That way, your chances of getting a dog that will fit your lifestyle and wants increase. Don't be in a rush, as it's better to wait for the RIGHT dog for YOU.

Q Man

by Q Man on 16 June 2021 - 17:06

"Don't be in a rush, as it's better to wait for the RIGHT dog for YOU."

Well said...

I have learned one thing over the time I've spent buying...raising and training dogs is that "It's Your Money...Buy what you want" Don't be in a rush to get something as important as a dog...If you don't get this puppy...there will ALWAYS be good dogs later...



by TIG on 16 June 2021 - 20:06

Op. Is this the "breeder" you are considering purchasing from

If not could you provide a link to their site and also tell us how you connected with/found them .

Ps to board members where on the editor did the link go for properly entering links?

by Nans gsd on 16 June 2021 - 21:06

I'll be blunt;; I would pass. too many unknowns and no health certifications. Very Very important for many reasons.

by astrovan2487 on 16 June 2021 - 22:06

No health certifications would be a deal breaker for me, even as just a companion. Seeing as the breeder does not title, certify, or work his dogs, and just trains on his own, I would absolutely have to meet the dogs in person to consider buying. There are good dogs back further in the pedigree, but thats the case for many GSD and may not have alot of weight on how the puppy you get will be. And the better lines further back appear to be mostly DDR, which would not be my first pick for a take everywhere companion dog. The more recent generations just look like pet dogs bred for the "DDR" marketing label.

Experienced buyers dont go off videos alone unless you know and trust the person selling, theres a reason for that. Even the most nervy dogs can look like a super hero in his own back yard or other familiar place.
The puppy would probably be fine. But its best to stack the odds in your favor with a better pedigree and health testing. I'd absolutely keep looking and pass on this one.


by TIG on 16 June 2021 - 23:06

Well if it's not Mr. Miller who wants to sell you a pup for $3800 (absolutely outrageous) plus shipping it's likely someone close to him since he owns the sire and 2 litter mates to the dam.

Recommendation: Backup, hit the pause button in fact run like h*ll in the other direction. 

Why? This person is ONLY a commercial seller of gsd.  He has more than the 2/4 dogs he told you about.. He has no definable breeding plan or objective and certainly has not outlined one. It is obvious he is a color breeder which is the road to perdition.  His business is making money off dogs. Not only will he sell you a puppy but also his $300 puppy training class and oh yah all those things listed under recommendation that he gets a cut of. EVERY post on his FB page has a link to something that will directly generate revenue. It's obviously working well for him since he can afford to hire a kennel manager and at least one in house vet tech( possibly more). So some people will say but what's wrong w that ( another day another discussion) so let's look a little further.

His about video tells you very little about him tho he touts himself as a dog trainer - with no proof other than his statement that he can walk his dogs off leash in his own backyard. WOW as the saying goes if the trial was held at home we'd all get 200 scores.

 Now I'm not a good trainer & will be the first one to admit it. But if asked I can identify w registered name & # dogs that I have put obedience titles on, tracking & herding titles, and I am a member of USCA's Sch3 club done with a H.O.T. dog who was trained to free track & retrieve the article because at the time I walked w arm crutches & she was also my service dog. And that's not an atypical resume for many sport handlers who do not present themselves as the world's knowledge base for training dogs.

For an example of his great training skills look at the 4/21 video on his FB page where - in his own backyard- he calls a dog 3x the dog does NOT come but eventually sits on its own accord so he walks up & tells the dog good dog & rewards him. ????

Going back to the selling of GSDs. It took me a bit of time to come up w his website since his dogs are not identified by their registered names instead cutesy pet names. I am not a FB user but presume that he uses the FB marketplace to sell puppies since he is heavy on social media and non existent in the normal traditional reputable dog communities. 

When you see a seller's website that has lots & lots of pictures and no identifiable information about the dogs, their clearances, their accomplishments,  their pedigrees run for the hills. This is a seller who doesn't give a damn about any of that and imho the breed. They just want to sucker the gullible and unknowing to hand over outrageous sums of money.

If you are not trialing your dogs why maintain 3 stud dogs. A stud fee is the cheapest thing in the world and allows you to get the best possible match for your bitch (& the breed). 

Please excuse the passion but I have seen this kind of crap far far too often. This is NOT a steward of the breed. You can do so much better.  I will follow this post with some suggestions. 


by TIG on 16 June 2021 - 23:06

I will 2nd Astrovan's comments about DDR dogs. I suggest you take the earlier advice to tell us your general locality and perhaps some recommendations can be made. Why do you want to buy a dog off the web?? That is the last place I would go. Your response to what kind of dog you want coupled with where & whom & what kind of dog you are looking at suggest to me you need to slow down and learn a whole lot more b4 darting off to get a dog.

Start locally. See if there are any breed or training clubs in your area AKC, AHBA, USCA, ASCA GSDCA. Visit. Go to any trials or show they offer. Go to training sessions. Watch, learn, listen! And ask, ask ask. If you see a dog u like find out about him. If you see a GSD on the street stop & talk to the owner. SOME vets can give you good references ( many can not look for a breeder vet). If you can find a mentor - often a path to superb dogs.

If this sounds like too much work for "just" a companion dog ( who if u r lucky will be with you for 13-15yrs) then I seriously suggest you check w some Shepherd rescues. Ones who foster and rate dogs. There are often good dogs in rescue thru no fault of theirs ( owner died etc).

Good luck in your search. Sad to say the gsd world these days is overpopulated with marginal sellers and outright frauds. I have had GSDs since 1963, have lived on both coasts & long participated in many dog sports and yet in looking for a new dog there are only a handful of breeders I would consider. 

Keep in mind this is not like purchasing a toaster that can be exchanged for no reason at all. In buying a puppy you need to find someone who is knowledgeable, has a public track record, will be there to answer your questions & concerns and who can suggest & refer to proper trainers (without worrying about a % back).



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