by ValK on 03 May 2021 - 21:05
i don't think there any will involved. it's just act to chase off an intruder. instinctive action, deeply innated over many generations.
would they stay in fight if met overwhelming resistance? most likely not but that another topic.
"Yes, dogs who could not work, were not kept around too long, but, again, the why."
just practical approach - dog doing required work or not. if not, then that dog viewed as useless and being replaced by another, who fit given task. very rarely sentimental attachment was involved.
don't get me wrong, i'm not against civilized way of life. what annoyed is when ppl goes into absurdity in their perception on what is civilized way. but again - it's different topic.
Klossbruhe what you said is correct from point of wild environment. domesticated animals, including dogs, was artificially tweaked by humans through millennia. as HD mentioned above - instead to eat hunted game, dog will bring it to hunter. instead to kill and consume sheep/goat, dog would guard and protect them from predators and thieves.
same for dogs, destined to be protectors. from generation to generation the dogs with low instinct for selfpreservation was noted and matched for mating to produce next generation of dogs with similar trait.
your friend, who "can chase any dog off the field" perhaps just never met the dogs, who rather die than give up the fight.
Rick, i also side with HD and could say - you're more humble that need to be. it seems like you have enough of own experience and knowledge to form personal opinion and to share with others.
by Hired Dog on 04 May 2021 - 04:05
Valk, dogs with low self preservation usually do not live long enough to breed. Dogs like that also are not known for their intelligence either.
Now, there is something heroic to be said about anyone who dies for their cause, but, since a dog knows nothing about a cause, it again, speaks of low intelligence.
By the way, you can indeed chase any dog off the field, a conversation you and I had a few times before, do you know why? Because the decoy is in a suit or wearing a sleeve and feels very little, if anything with the dog on him, hence the reason I said to you that my dogs could be tested in real life, but, no protection equipment involved.
In that same light, you could say that malinois are those type of dogs, but, look deeper, why are they these type? My friend's dog that I mentioned in another thread with the ball could also be the type to hang on to a human that same way, I dont know because she was never trained for bite work, but, does that make her smart?
Again, there is something romantic or brave if you will to see that willingness to sacrifice your life for your cause, but, is it intelligent from a biological point?
ADD: There are dogs that will dive off a building chasing a toy or a person, does that make them intelligent? Does that speak well of their bravery? Look, if you want a missile dressed in fur, there are many dogs to fit that bill, but, at what point do you draw the line? That is not a concious decision being made in the dog's mind...that is an over abundance of drive to the point of death.
by ValK on 04 May 2021 - 14:05
but as long as dog under human care and control, they doing fine.
i'm talking from my own experience. such dog's trait was very important hallmark among many others in choosing breeding stock at border kennel. and trust me, it has nothing to do with intelligence of dogs. such dog can be either, not really bright one or extremely smart.
on other hands, the creatures in wild environment a must have very strong selfpreservation instinct to survive and prosper. and those instincts, so much necessary for wilderness was main cause of failure in experiment at z PS. '
albeit from point of physiology, the offspring from such breeding was superior in respect of health and atletism than GS dogs, but weak in loyalty, lacking desire for cooperation and absolutely not suitable in field of protection work.