The Evolution of the Back of the German Shepherd Dog - Page 3

Well just based on what the SV guy said and the dog he held up as representative at the end on the PDE article, proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt that nothing will change for the better. It might get worse, but it's not going to get better. When are they going to do something about this popularity for the heavy akita head as well? That's the latest thing to drive me wild.

ITA, Abby!!!  If you read what the standard says about the head, lips are not to be drooping, apple-domed skulls are forbidden, and there is not supposed to be central furrow on the forehead. Many of these heavy-headed dogs show all 3 of these! I HATE IT!! Yet many people seem to think it's GREAT and say the dog has a nice 'stallion-type' head!  GRRRrrrrr!!

Not only are those heads ugly they will also lead to overly long soft palates, restricted airways, jaws too small to accomodate complete dentition. Eyes will get even rounder and lose their desired almond shape. Lip fold pyoderma is also likely  to be an on going issue. Eventually these dogs will not be able to gait far without huffing and puffing like American Bulldogs and pugs. It happened to my original breed; it took a lot of selective breeding to get back to dogs that could work. For every action, a reaction.

China gsd.......very sad.....

China has a club that adheards to the FCI standard and anohter club similar to AKC, and has written its own standard. 
Every time a different standard is created, the breed standard in interperted differently.
This is why we must adhear to one international standard.

I can't disagree, SM, but will add that it also matters who is interpreting that breed standard. How could the FCI section regarding heads have possibly led to the Akita heads that are ending up with V and Va ratings? What are the SV judges thinking?

Head

The head is wedge-shaped, and in proportion to the body size (length about 40 % at the height at the withers), without being plump or too elongated, dry in the overall appearance and moderately broad between the ears. Seen from the front and side, the forehead is only slightly arched and without any or with only a slightly indicated middle furrow.

The ratio from the cranial region to the facial region is 50 % to 50 %. The width of the cranial region more or less corresponds to the length of the cranial region. The cranial region (seen from above) tapers evenly towards the nasal bridge with gradually sloping, not sharply depicted stop in the wedge-shaped facial region (foreface) of the head. Upper and lower jaws are powerfully developed.

The nasal dorsum is straight, any dip or bulge is undesirable. The lips are taut, close well and are of dark colouring

Same way the ALS dog tend to have soft hocks, and minimal secondary sex differences i guess.

LOL gotta give you, you are persistent. Tit for tat every time even if it's not relevant to the topic.

what i've been saying all along........one breed standard interpreted different ways, will most likely produce a more uniform result then more then one breed standard.

when judges and breeders interpret the breed standard, they should rely on the koermiesters from where the breed originated, if not, instead of one breed, a new breed is formed.

the dog from china is an example of a nation using a different breed standard, and the judges interpreting that standard......its no longer a GSD, but a different breed, wouldn't you agree?

 

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I would agree that the originators of the breed would seem the most obvious to determine and interpret the breed standard.  But, it is clear that they themselves are directing/encouraging the trend towards these heads, not to mention, back, angulation, size etc.  In any breed, a feature shown to be favoured and rewarded by the judges is then built upon and enhanced, on the incorrect premise that more is always better.

Setting aside the 'ambiguity' about backs and angulation, the very first few words in the standard about the head - The head is wedge-shaped - is now completely dismissed. It is not 'difficult' to interpret, there is no ambiguity in that description, and yet look at the heads we have on VA & V dogs. It's not a huge leap of imagination to see the show GSD end up like the chinese dog shown if the trend continues unchecked.  As Blitzen says what are the SV thinking? .

I didn't read the thread, but the problem is that their is interpretation at all about what is "ideal"

The standard is the ideal, there is no "perfect" and these shows that somehow pick the closest to "perfect" or "ideal" is a bunch of crap.  the standard has ranges, beyond that it should be about temperament and performance.  Period.  Quit with the idealized show stuff.  Show them to prove they fit conformation standards.  Quit picking the "best" because none of them are "ideal"