A Princess for Prince,,?? - Page 4

Deanna, I will get to your message shortly. Wanted to respond to a few points here briefly.

-I gave a GSD pup to my daughter at 11. She completed her first CD on another dog at nine years old with top placings each leg. She was born into a "dog family". She put 3 rally titles, a CD, and a BH on her dog before she got lazy. Guess who had to finish her IPO1?

-Deanna tried taking Prince to training and the nimrod "trainer" set him up for failure and kicked him out of class. The only other two places near her are big box stores. Her options are limited out in the country, that's how he ended up with me 9 hours away.

-Prince needs bitework like a hole in the head. I understand the sentiment, but trust me on this.

I wasn't recommending a trainer but the possibility of her working with experienced dog people at a club in which the USA regional director and regional breed warden are both officers.

As far as protection work is concerned, I'll have to defer to you since I have neither seen the dog's behavior nor worked him but some dogs do well when given an outlet for their aggression with the eventual goal being to teach the dog that there is a time and a place when they are allowed to bite and that they don't get to make that decision for themselves.

As others have said, I'd hold off for a good long time on a second dog for the same reasons as others have listed, given the backstory here. Additionally, young dogs tend to learn the behaviors of the older one. If you have an impeccably trained dog, it's been my experience and observation that the pup trains himself by imitating the older dog's behavior. I've had young dogs "sitz" right along side their mentor -- much to my delighted surprise because I hadn't started training said young dogs yet, and had no idea they'd figured it out themselves :)

Conversely though, I've seen it go the other way. When clients have a dog with behaviors that present problems, and get a young dog, male or female, GSD or not, the puppy starts emulating the adult. Unless the puppy can be raised completely separate from the adult, they will imprint on the other dog in the house. Of course, owning two dogs and keeping them isolated from each other can be logistically difficult in many households.


I don't want people fawning over him either... I just don't want to show up with Prince muzzled, and be concerned about how I am going to handle the correction he will deserve

Beg your pardon, but most folk at Schutzhund clubs are not idiots about how to conduct themselves around dogs, not run up with grabby hands and shove their faces in the dog's face. As for corrections? If any place would be the ideal spot to learn, it would've been around experienced people who are used to working with dogs that have been trained to bite; people who know these dogs that aren't golden retrievers in GSD suits. 



A puppy is not a good choice right now.

A retired dog is not the best choice either. Even a 'retired' dog can be a lot to handle. Your son is young. Trained dogs aren't machines. Titles don't mean mechanical obedience to anyone handling. Females, in my experience, seem to be even more one-handler dogs than males. My conservative opinion is to wait until after Prince to consider a new dog. 

"Additionally, young dogs tend to learn the behaviors of the older one. If you have an impeccably trained dog, it's been my experience and observation that the pup trains himself by imitating the older dog's behavior. I've had young dogs "sitz" right along side their mentor -- much to my delighted surprise because I hadn't started training said young dogs yet, and had no idea they'd figured it out themselves :)"

I agree with this but I only have 40+ years of experience with the breed, most of that time in a multi-GSD household, so I will defer to those with more experience.

"Beg your pardon, but most folk at Schutzhund clubs are not idiots about how to conduct themselves around dogs, not run up with grabby hands and shove their faces in the dog's face. As for corrections? If any place would be the ideal spot to learn, it would've been around experienced people who are used to working with dogs that have been trained to bite; people who know these dogs that aren't golden retrievers in GSD suits."

Exactly.  The muzzle only adds stress.  Give the dog the opportunity to do the work for which he was intended and he might just surprise you.  It is a time commitment; you have to commit to going to club every weekend and spending the day there and to doing your homework with your dog every day during the week.  If you think that you can go to club, get your dog worked and leave and that you and he have learned all that you can, you've missed the point.  Going to club is never about just working your dog...you learn far more from watching all of the other dogs and listening to the discussions about them than  you ever will actually being on the field.

@ Keith, It'd be nice if they'd learn the entire routine from each other, lol!

When I get a new pup, s/he starts emulating the older ones, and picking up some of the basic cues without my intervention. The young'uns learn at least a few things: house manners, a few words like "crate," downing, sitting, and how to potty outside by imitating the big dogs. I've had a variety of dogs over the years, my first were gun-dogs and rabbit hounds. Used to train my upland dogs by letting the pups follow the trained adults afield. It's pretty neat to watch the pups learn from the big dogs. By the time I started formally training them, the pups already had a pretty good idea of the whistle and hand commands.

Alas, the big dogs can teach bad things too: things like how to climb chainlink. Then I had to put lids on their kennels.

I've also seen compulsive behaviors, like spinning, be learned by other dogs in kennels where I've worked. When I was working with Military Working Dogs, we got a spinner of a Mal. Soon, other dogs who could see him in his kennel started spinning, and it passed right down the line. Not every dog started spinning, but a goodly number did. It was not good >_<
 

Well thank you everyone for your input on this thread and also for those that sent PM's,,I do appreciate every bit of input...
 
I keep coming back to the same concern over and over, that being I have important goals that still need to be accomplished with Prince.I can not in good conscience get another GSD,before I work through our issues,,,,There are so many reasons why I would love to have another GSD, but in all honestly it just is not the right time...thanks again,,:)



 

See, this is why I such respect for you, Deanna.  You ask for honest input, and when you get it--bluntly and without kid gloves--you take it all in, and in the spirit which it is offered. 

I think you're spot-on...you've got more to achieve with Prince before it's the right time to bring a new dog into the mix.  When that time comes, you'll know, because you won't have any misgivings or uncertainty about the prospect.

I got to go to my computer,but I would tell you,Yes, you can do it, and not be sorry you did. I 'live with' a few German Shepherds. One male with a lot of the same traits as Prince. YOU know your dog, YOU are the one dealing with him, If you want a puppy, you should get one. I myself think a puppy would be a lot more acceptable to Prince and you ALL would benefit from one...

See, this is why I such respect for you, Deanna.  You ask for honest input, and when you get it--bluntly and without kid gloves--you take it all in, and in the spirit which it is offered. 

hexe...wish others would learn to take it too...right? ..:)