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by Ibrahim on 29 July 2011 - 21:07
VomMarischal,
I value both the temperament as well as the looks, history tells us that GSD used to have both the temperament and looks in one, I believe if intelligent dedicated show breeders decide to they can bring that GSD back by introducing work blood into their breedings gradually and carefully keeping same focus on good looks, at the same time bring back correct angulation, no cow hocks, loose rears etc.
What Daryl said above made me concerned about the possibility of getting unexpected traits out of crossing show with work that are magnified compared to one or both of the parents !!!
Ibrahim
I value both the temperament as well as the looks, history tells us that GSD used to have both the temperament and looks in one, I believe if intelligent dedicated show breeders decide to they can bring that GSD back by introducing work blood into their breedings gradually and carefully keeping same focus on good looks, at the same time bring back correct angulation, no cow hocks, loose rears etc.
What Daryl said above made me concerned about the possibility of getting unexpected traits out of crossing show with work that are magnified compared to one or both of the parents !!!
Ibrahim
by VomMarischal on 29 July 2011 - 21:07
Well you WOULD. You'd get both structural and temperamental unexpected outcomes. Probably get fearbiters whose asses are two inches higher than their withers.
by Ibrahim on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
Fearbiters are the worst thing, they are capable of biting their owners, imagine your dog biting your child !!! worst thing I could imagine indeed. Such dog is what I would call dangerous
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by VomMarischal on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
I'm with you, for sure.
by Abby Normal on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
I am quite sure that in the original development of the GSD you would have ended up with many things, poor temperament (in some particular lines) were very apparent. Conformationally there was a very wide mix of type. Let's remember that the showlines in the video were not exactly the epitome of an ideal temperament and I am quite sure that working lines have some flawed temperaments as well.
I personally think you are right Ibrahim, over time, with judicious breeding the universal dog could be achieved. As with any breeding you have to adjust and discard, choosing the best qualities to develop. Yes, it would probably take another 50 years to get back there. But it won't happen, for the reasons VM has stated.........unless the SV started rewarding show dogs with a different structure and temperament, then show people would be falling over themselves to breed a different dog.
There should be no problem achieving that from strictly workingline stock
you are probably right, I do not doubt that in general the WL dog has the correct template in terms of construction and working ability.
Bridging the divide will never happen on any great scale, as VM said - each side feel that they are 'breeding down'. There are some SL/WL dogs coming through, I am interested to see how they develop. It is an eternal argument.
I personally think you are right Ibrahim, over time, with judicious breeding the universal dog could be achieved. As with any breeding you have to adjust and discard, choosing the best qualities to develop. Yes, it would probably take another 50 years to get back there. But it won't happen, for the reasons VM has stated.........unless the SV started rewarding show dogs with a different structure and temperament, then show people would be falling over themselves to breed a different dog.
There should be no problem achieving that from strictly workingline stock
you are probably right, I do not doubt that in general the WL dog has the correct template in terms of construction and working ability.
Bridging the divide will never happen on any great scale, as VM said - each side feel that they are 'breeding down'. There are some SL/WL dogs coming through, I am interested to see how they develop. It is an eternal argument.
by Ibrahim on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
Aby, as usual what you say is intellectual, I too want to see how work show combining develops, culling may often be necessary, it might bring very good results, but we need more breeders to take this path and we need to encourage them.
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by VomMarischal on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
I would never do it, myself. Too attached to what I have. Not saying I'm right, but there you are.
by Ibrahim on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
and I respect your stand, as a matter of fact work breeders don't need to, they only need to pay more attention to produce v quality dogs, if you allow me to say so.
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by VomMarischal on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
Yeah well, with each generation I get miniscule improvements in things like layback and croup, but I'm not one shred interested in the exaggeration of showlines. I'm not interested in those big awful Newfie heads, either.
by Abby Normal on 29 July 2011 - 22:07
I have great admiration for those 'showline' breeders who recognise that something needs to change, and so have chosen to take steps to incorporate WL breeding.
The problem is those breeders who choose to make this change find themselves in a no mans land; their dogs will not do well in the show ring, and they may not wish to immerse themselves in WL sports competition to demonstrate working ability, so will not gain any recognition from the WL side either.
But, we will watch with interest Ibrahim.
The problem is those breeders who choose to make this change find themselves in a no mans land; their dogs will not do well in the show ring, and they may not wish to immerse themselves in WL sports competition to demonstrate working ability, so will not gain any recognition from the WL side either.
But, we will watch with interest Ibrahim.
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