Fun with show toons - Page 2

Ooops, DP!

   Jeff said...   How did it ever get to the point where the shitter is worth more than the dog that will stand in the door and protect your family ??....

                  Because people like pretty in the form of black and red....: )  Our whole society puts outer beauty above charter/function, not a big surprise that it flows into the dog world too...I want both, so hopefully breeders keep striving for that perfect balance.....JMO....: )


                    
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"But I blame alot on the trainers as well.  2 months is simply not enough time to prep a dog to be  consistent. JMO"

We shouldn't ever have to train a dog to be courageous.  That is how they should be bred.  I took my totally untrained 3 year old male to a schutzhund club and you couldn't run him off the field.  We should be testing them untrained in courage, than we'd separate the good from the crap.

This is the reason people who give a crap about ability in showlines are laughed at by working line people.

Quote: But if the point is to bash showlines because they can't work then take a look at Griff on video.  He is what we are breeding for at the moment so showbreeders are headed in the right direction.  I have a unique perspective as i work both Show and Working lines. But I blame alot on the trainers as well.  2 months is simply not enough time to prep a dog to be  consistent. JMO

Show me Griff. I missed seeing him, or was he on the video ?

I remember reading an article about a german guy that competed in the HGH. He went to a Sch club, and they were teasing him. One of the helpers said send the dog, and he sent his dog, and the dog ran out and nailed the guy.

At this show on the video, these dogs should be Sch3 at least, I would think. Why would you need the two weeks ? I could not work any of my dogs for years and they would at the worst not out right away. This is where I think you need to consider what I am saying. A dog should not need to be prepped for some simple thing like what we saw in the video. 

Structurally those dogs are crap. They would never stand up to hard work. Their spines would fuse, their feet would knuckle over and they would be maybe 5. The long jump would take them out of the work in ring alone. Decoys would run them screaming from the field as they have no character to speak of, and you can clearly see that it is only training training training that take them to the decoy.  

I have seen showdogs that look like this with good character and drive, but their body fails them. That is why it confuses the ever loving shit out of me how anyone could say that structure is correct movement with a straight face. This is not all directed at you, but years and years of frustration with people and breeders that not only swear that it is a more "evolved" dog, but that somehow, this style is superior in movement. All I see is a dog that is broken and crippled with hard work in 5 years.

 Sunsilver:

                     I read that article when it first came out and it is a great article.

 Jeff:

          Come on now I think those big mean nasty helpers were just scarrin those KK1 Top of the line doggies. You don,t want to upset those owners of (those lines) do ya?.

 

         Jeff,

       Is there any showline GSD that in your opinion is structurally sound with good temperament?....Just curious...: )

Red Sable,

Best that could be said. I support more emphasis by show breeders on working ability and I think introducing work blood into show lines is a good practice.

Ibrahim

RS, you wrote " We should be testing them untrained in courage, than we'd separate the good from the crap."

An awful lot of stuff should be tested untrained. Training tests training, although it also sheds light on trainability (anybody who has ever studied IQ testing knows that). It sheds much more light on training though, as we all know shitters who were trained into passing (OK so the OP's vid shows dogs that had no natural talent OR trainability). Hard to see how "training" works out to be a breed test, isn't it? Test the dog's training to see its genetics? That'll only help a little.

Ruger1:
I want both, so hopefully breeders keep striving for that perfect balance.....JMO....: )

As long as looks are valued even that much, it'll never happen. Beauty is supposed to be in utility. No more fluffy black and red Golden Retrievers with Newfoundland heads and the inability to stand their ground.

I remember reading an article about a german guy that competed in the HGH. He went to a Sch club, and they were teasing him. One of the helpers said send the dog, and he sent his dog, and the dog ran out and nailed the guy.
 

Jeff, that was Schaefermeister Manfred Heyne. I think I have a link to that article somewhere, but can't find it at the moment. I'll see if I can locate that post on the database. I think I might have been the one who made it.

Edit: found the post! http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=29380&pagen=3#29892

Yes it was me that posted it, and here's my comment. I think you'll find it very relevant to this thread!
 

I just can't get over the fact that Manfred's dog, with NO training whatsoever, attacked the helper, and took him right down! That is really incredible!

That's the sort of dog we should be paying thousands of dollars for, NOT the pretty black and red showlines!