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by GSDNewbie on 01 June 2011 - 01:06
Say you have never done anything with wolf dogs yet you uploaded one of your husky/wolf litter pups on your you tube channel?
http://youtu.be/flA8jm6Kx6o
http://youtu.be/flA8jm6Kx6o
by k9pines on 01 June 2011 - 01:06
V Horand von Grafrath.jpgBeetree...
All of the dogs you posted pictures of are brindle GSD with black saddles.
As are these:
Top pic: V Horand von Grafrath - appears to be a brindle/sable
2nd pic is: VA Regina von Schwaben
3rd pic:VA Beowolf Vom Nahegau SchH Kkl1 dob 4-28-1903
4th pic: V Beowolf
Now the 4th picture has to be the most interesting as it is Horand. The very first registered GSD. In the picture it appears he too has the brindle stripes on his legs. Now if you go to this link:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1208&p=progeny-pictures
You can see Horands son "VA Hektor von Schwaben" in the photo above that Beetree posted.
You can then see 2 of Hectors sons also have the brindle pattern and if you click their names and see both sons photo's they are clearly brindles too.
You can also see that at least one of the 4 daughters pictured are also brindle.
Then you can see at least 2 (clearly) some others are questionable (old pics) grandsons are brindle.
Possibly 1 grand-daughter
Clearly someone thought the brindle pattern in the GSD was worthy in the begining (you know the founder of the breed....) so why is it that the latter powers that be eliminated the original pattern, or yet attempted to eliminate? Because it was their choice, just as it is other's choice to work with it now.
All of the dogs you posted pictures of are brindle GSD with black saddles.
As are these:
Top pic: V Horand von Grafrath - appears to be a brindle/sable
2nd pic is: VA Regina von Schwaben
3rd pic:VA Beowolf Vom Nahegau SchH Kkl1 dob 4-28-1903
4th pic: V Beowolf
Now the 4th picture has to be the most interesting as it is Horand. The very first registered GSD. In the picture it appears he too has the brindle stripes on his legs. Now if you go to this link:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1208&p=progeny-pictures
You can see Horands son "VA Hektor von Schwaben" in the photo above that Beetree posted.
You can then see 2 of Hectors sons also have the brindle pattern and if you click their names and see both sons photo's they are clearly brindles too.
You can also see that at least one of the 4 daughters pictured are also brindle.
Then you can see at least 2 (clearly) some others are questionable (old pics) grandsons are brindle.
Possibly 1 grand-daughter
Clearly someone thought the brindle pattern in the GSD was worthy in the begining (you know the founder of the breed....) so why is it that the latter powers that be eliminated the original pattern, or yet attempted to eliminate? Because it was their choice, just as it is other's choice to work with it now.
by GSDNewbie on 01 June 2011 - 01:06
You threw down the BS card, what no responses to the proof of your lies?
by k9pines on 01 June 2011 - 02:06
GSD Newbie Not only have you yet to post a link, picture, name of, or any proof of the chained dog you also need to learn to read - my comment is above and says "I do not work with wolfdogs".
It really is not too hard to figure out why I would not post our physical address, my husband is a Police Officer I am not at liberty to post our physical address for psycho's or stalkers to easily find.
After I have spoken to and approve of a prospective puppy buyer, and get information from that person, they get my address and come to my home or I meet them or I ship them their puppy. Just like any other responsible breeder. I have friends that do not post their physical address as they have had puppies stolen. Any person who has the welfare, or of the saftey of their belongings, children, life, themselves would understand and also follow the same practices.
You can keep acting like a child stomping up and down because we both know you can NOT refute the color genetics and this is what this thread is and was started about. The brindle pattern. Not me. Get to know color genetics and realize that I am not the only one working with the various colors and patterns nor are my bloodlines the only ones that are producing them, you will be better educated. Did you also find the time to read the genetics link concerning the brindle pattern and how it can be carried?
In the mean time thought I would share a pic (with permission) of this lovely girl:
Or this nice girl:
Not of my breeding nor related to my own brindle line.
AKC registered German Shepherds
Once a color/pattern gene is in a gene pool even if thought to be eliminated can be carried quietly or mutate back in.
It is simple science. Just like with the hidden merles. That would be pretty awesome to find a merle GSD. Hopefully if someone visiting this site that has one born in their litter will not be afraid to speak up and share what has occured.
It really is not too hard to figure out why I would not post our physical address, my husband is a Police Officer I am not at liberty to post our physical address for psycho's or stalkers to easily find.
After I have spoken to and approve of a prospective puppy buyer, and get information from that person, they get my address and come to my home or I meet them or I ship them their puppy. Just like any other responsible breeder. I have friends that do not post their physical address as they have had puppies stolen. Any person who has the welfare, or of the saftey of their belongings, children, life, themselves would understand and also follow the same practices.
You can keep acting like a child stomping up and down because we both know you can NOT refute the color genetics and this is what this thread is and was started about. The brindle pattern. Not me. Get to know color genetics and realize that I am not the only one working with the various colors and patterns nor are my bloodlines the only ones that are producing them, you will be better educated. Did you also find the time to read the genetics link concerning the brindle pattern and how it can be carried?
In the mean time thought I would share a pic (with permission) of this lovely girl:
Or this nice girl:
Not of my breeding nor related to my own brindle line.
AKC registered German Shepherds
Once a color/pattern gene is in a gene pool even if thought to be eliminated can be carried quietly or mutate back in.
It is simple science. Just like with the hidden merles. That would be pretty awesome to find a merle GSD. Hopefully if someone visiting this site that has one born in their litter will not be afraid to speak up and share what has occured.
by vonissk on 01 June 2011 - 02:06
Talking about people who cannot read or maybe the shoe is fitting too tight. Melissa I never said YOU sold puppies for 50-300 and a rare color for 500--I was making refernce to people who just throw together 2 dogs with papers and no knowledge or cares for the future of the breed. I'd really like to see the proof of this blue/tan UKC CH. I didn't think they had sunk that low. And while we are talking about UKC and how they put up working dogs and not who is at the end of the leash--first of all I think UKC is wayyyyy more political than AKC. Secondly they will put anything up with 4 legs, a warm heart and that can halfway move. I can and will say this because I show UKC right now but not for much longer. And this is why--I showed to a very well known UKC judge and when we went for breed there was me and a male blk/tan. He had a sway back, cow hocked, very bad mangy looking coat and when it came time for the judge to go over him--he backed up, ducked his head and refused to let the judge look at him. Read the standard--UKC says any GSD that refuses examination is to be automatically disqualified. Do you know that judge didn't even move the dog? He never looked at my girl--he pointed to him for BOB. So I'm not impressed with UKC and their little CH certificates. Now before you go to hollering sour grapes, I know a lot of people in dogdom who are very poor sportmans and I am definately not one of them. I have lost way more than I ever won and if you win and have the better dog then I am happy for you. But to get beat by a piece of crap that definately should be excused then you want to tell me how the UKC is for the working dog? I don't think so. I just went to an AKC Specialty a couple of weeks ago and altho yes I saw a few ski slope dogs and hock walkers I also saw some very nice dogs with nice movement and toplines, good heads--dogs that look like they could work all day. I also belong to the GSDCA and have for a few years--many articles are being written about how changes need to be made not only in breeding but also in judging and the GSD needs to get back on track. And I am really happy to see that. It may be true that we cannot refute the colors the GSd comes in but when it is against the standard that makes a whole lot of difference. I saw your ad too with 350 puppies. I also saw the dog on a chain. So you go ahead and claim all you want about how great you are and what a good breeder you are but as Newbie says you will be the death of the breed and I will add and people that think like you.
by Bob McKown on 01 June 2011 - 02:06
I,m thinking k9pines might be a bit unsetteled since she just chewed my ass for saying something that isn,t there??? Oh well I,ve got big shoulders. I still think the owner of the dog chained out on the dirt should be chained there for days.
by GSDNewbie on 01 June 2011 - 02:06
"you do not work wolf dogs" that sure is splitting hairs with the truth lmao you just breed and sell them.
by k9pines on 01 June 2011 - 02:06
Vonissk,
I am strong enough to say I obviously misunderstood your post and thought that your comment about a $50 puppy was directed at me. My mistake.
I have no clue what you are talking about ad with 350 puppies can you please point me in that direction I would appreciate that as well.
If anyone 'saw' a dog on a chain on my website put up the picture, the name of the dog, where they saw the pic, who the pic was of, anything, because all of my pages are pretty easy to follow, each of the males/females have pages and there are more than one photo of the same dog on their prospective pages and my website has not been updated since May 22. anything....
Or nothing because there wasn't/isn't a picture of a dog on a chain.
I agree all clubs can be political and it boils down to this specific blue/tan UKC was worthy of being shown in AKC as during that time there were little to no ski slopes and no wobbling back then either.
Here is a link to a site of Jodel's the Phantom (UKC blu/tan Champion) pedigree: http://www.spraguesgsd.com/Bios/gloryped.htm
I have a grandson from the same pedigree (top and bottom) and a grand-daughter (Top on the female). I have a few pics of him. Will round those up too.
As for me being the death of a breed of dog that took over 100 years to create and ultimately be hurt by the drastic changes over the decades in the physical build that is laughable. It was not created single handed and my program of the various colors in the gene pool including the typical colors/patterns could not possibly kill the breed especially when the dogs I use or allow to go to breeding homes are well within the GSD standard as well as built to be nice medium bred GSD.
I am strong enough to say I obviously misunderstood your post and thought that your comment about a $50 puppy was directed at me. My mistake.
I have no clue what you are talking about ad with 350 puppies can you please point me in that direction I would appreciate that as well.
If anyone 'saw' a dog on a chain on my website put up the picture, the name of the dog, where they saw the pic, who the pic was of, anything, because all of my pages are pretty easy to follow, each of the males/females have pages and there are more than one photo of the same dog on their prospective pages and my website has not been updated since May 22. anything....
Or nothing because there wasn't/isn't a picture of a dog on a chain.
I agree all clubs can be political and it boils down to this specific blue/tan UKC was worthy of being shown in AKC as during that time there were little to no ski slopes and no wobbling back then either.
Here is a link to a site of Jodel's the Phantom (UKC blu/tan Champion) pedigree: http://www.spraguesgsd.com/Bios/gloryped.htm
I have a grandson from the same pedigree (top and bottom) and a grand-daughter (Top on the female). I have a few pics of him. Will round those up too.
As for me being the death of a breed of dog that took over 100 years to create and ultimately be hurt by the drastic changes over the decades in the physical build that is laughable. It was not created single handed and my program of the various colors in the gene pool including the typical colors/patterns could not possibly kill the breed especially when the dogs I use or allow to go to breeding homes are well within the GSD standard as well as built to be nice medium bred GSD.
by Tihannah on 01 June 2011 - 02:06
I think what shocks me the most is that this breeder even showed up here to try and defend this MESS of a kennel. I mean...did she really come back to post a link in defense of the chained dog, to another dog that looks dirty, unkempt, with part of its ear chewed off? Looks like nothing more than a puppy mill to me...feel really sorry for those poor dogs...
by vonissk on 01 June 2011 - 04:06
Wanted to add one thing--I said in my post I was definately a poor sportsman and I just edited it because it is supposed to say NOT a poor sportsman. And Bob I still agree with you, I hate to see any dog on a chain or in mud or dirty or pics of dogs shedding or thin and I don't mean in working shape, I mean thin.
Melissa all you have to do is look at the link Newbie posted and it says 350 in your ad for all those weird colors. The pedigree you posted means nothing to me. Sure I know who a lot of the dogs are but anybody can put CH on a pedigree........................
Also I misquoted the UKC standard about dogs refusing to be examined--I believe that is the AKC standard--UKC says extreme shyness or viciousness.
Melissa all you have to do is look at the link Newbie posted and it says 350 in your ad for all those weird colors. The pedigree you posted means nothing to me. Sure I know who a lot of the dogs are but anybody can put CH on a pedigree........................
Also I misquoted the UKC standard about dogs refusing to be examined--I believe that is the AKC standard--UKC says extreme shyness or viciousness.
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