The ideal GSD before the breed was bifurcated into WL and SL - Page 11

The SV caters to this division by not requiring both sides to compete in the same events.  SL's have theirs, WL's their own, when they should both be competing on the same fields and by the same judges, and ultimately that would sort a lot of it out from both sides.  Can't expect participants to try to compete in both "worlds" seperately, when there should only be "one" to oversee the breed.

 Quote: - Top SL dogs have SCHH-1/2/3 exams, don't they? Doesn't it mean that they are somehow able to work? Can't believe that their exams have all been bought.

Why not ? Have you ever seen a bunch of SL dogs at a trial with working dogs ? Beauty is subjective, work is rather clear. 

mypiss, do you not get dizzy switching user accounts so often.

Rick Atchley

 It is not nice to use such low language when talking to other members, I don't think Jenni78 deserves such an attack, stupid is the one who thinks he knows it all.

Ibrahim

Because "she" knows it all, and has a strong proficiency in low language herself?  She always has the most to say about everything, and I'm sure can defend herself.

I wouldn't use SchH as the litmus test for a dog's ability to transfer any drive to future generations since some there are some fairly mediocre dogs that get high points because they are very well trained and handled. They are then used for breeding and end up producing yet worse adn overpriced dogs. When people that breed working dogs are concerning only with the points, they kill the working abilities. Considering that (in any one country)there are really a handful of handlers capable of consistent high finishes at the National and international level, it becomes easy for dogs that dont' rack up points, but show natural ability to willingly take the fight to and challenge the helper, to get bypassed. That is how we have several signifficant stud dogs (Mink comes to mind) whose trial performance did not do justice to their impact on the breed. IMPO, SL's and WL's should have an event where the dogs get to work and show. The closest thing right now is the Universal Sieger Title, yet both SL's and WL's interests ahve kept it in a relegated position. In effect it whould be the most coveted title for any breeder, but (regardless of SL or WL's) it is sooooo much easier to breed towards a limited objective. When we see top notch studs and dams (in both lines) blended to create a dog that is correct to the breed standard and both aesthetically pleasing as well as a good working dog (by that I refer to its temperament and drive makeup), then I believe we may be seeing some improvement on this front. Until then, small breeders and individuals are taking incremental steps to tempt some of the breeders to commit some of their better genetics into such an endeavor.

 I am one of those people that usually just reads this forum and does not post but I feel like this needs to be said.

Miypizz. If you can not express your opinions in a courteous manner then don't express them at all !!!!  Your attack on Jenni78 was rude and offensive!!!

Sorry Jenni78. This person obviously has nothing intelligent to say and the only way they can get any attention is to fling the F word around.

 Duke, are you saying ajax couldn´t be trained for SCH if you wanted, due to the sleeve only being OK to bite, or just that he is being trained not for SCH? People tend to have different meaning of defence,sharpness,nerves...especially in different countries it seems, but "good" nerves doesn´t mean a dog can´t have strong defence and sharpness, if a dog have a good defencedrive obviously he then also have some sharpness because how can he else defend himself seriously if he has no aggresion? It´s true thou that a dog  which sharpness is easily provoked in many cases are less courageous, but not always, and I guess there is also some debate if a very courageus strong nerved dog is the best for policework or protection where a dog that more quickly turns on his aggresion in the face of a threath could be an asset.

sure he can be trained for schh , but he is not , wouldnot get many points with him either

you are totally correct that many misunderstandings occur because of different views on termonology , makes it more difficult to get a point across sometimes

different policework asks for different dog , I would say for crowdcontrol , you better have a  hectic screaming malinois to impress the hooligans , for narc. oe explovises  you dont want a dog screaming and snapping at everything close

the same goes for my dogs , one is better for PPD the other one for sport , if you put the right dog/pup  in the right direction you end up with satisfied people

 Jeff, sorry I'm late, but you missed my sarcasm in my post that you responded to. We're in agreement, actually....which I hate. LOL

To clc29 and Ibrahim, that was very sweet of you, but unnecessary. I don't know who that person is, but clearly, they have some VERY serious problems and I don't/won't give them a second thought. ;-)