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by BlackthornGSD on 14 February 2011 - 15:02
Yes, I see the variation from darkest bicolour to lightest saddle as a line of continuous variation. There's obviously an order of dominance from lightest to darkest and possibly some incomplete dominance of at over a, as there is in aw over a to account for some of the darkening but basically there are modifying genes controlling the balance between dark and light pigment.
Pod, it will be interesting to see the research come out. This just isn't how I've seen the patterns appear in practice. There seem to be very definitive characteristics with predictive pattern differences. But there's no doubt that there's also a "coverage" gene also in play and my observations are far from scientific or incredibly widespread.
Thanks for the info!
Pod, it will be interesting to see the research come out. This just isn't how I've seen the patterns appear in practice. There seem to be very definitive characteristics with predictive pattern differences. But there's no doubt that there's also a "coverage" gene also in play and my observations are far from scientific or incredibly widespread.
Thanks for the info!
by BlackthornGSD on 14 February 2011 - 15:02
Nona--isn't that puppy quite a bit older by now? Does he have tan behind his ears?
Some puppies you have either know the genetics of the parents or watch how the pup's coloring changes as s/he matures.
Some puppies you have either know the genetics of the parents or watch how the pup's coloring changes as s/he matures.
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 16:02
Actually, Blackthorn, his birthdate is Dec 8, 2010..So, NOOOO, he is not quite a bit older, a few days but not quite a bit older....
by eichenluft on 14 February 2011 - 16:02
Looks like a bicolor right now - what colors are his parents? If neither is bicolor has either produced a true bicolor before? If not then unless there is a reason to know for sure if bicolor is possible or not - you will have to wait and see if his toemarks fade (or get darker) or if he develops shading behind his ears/elsewhere (or not). From the pictures though I'd guess he is bicolor.
molly
molly
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 17:02
Here is a little information about Riot's backgrd color.....
This is his sire, he is out of sableXblack... Riot's mom is a Bastin Vom Kokeltal daughter, Bastin being a bi-color, and I have no color information on the mom... But Riot's mom is the same color as Riot is now now..No tan around the ears.... The sire has produced solid blacks and bi-colors before....Mom also has produced bi-colors..not sure about solid blacks....
This is his sire, he is out of sableXblack... Riot's mom is a Bastin Vom Kokeltal daughter, Bastin being a bi-color, and I have no color information on the mom... But Riot's mom is the same color as Riot is now now..No tan around the ears.... The sire has produced solid blacks and bi-colors before....Mom also has produced bi-colors..not sure about solid blacks....
by BlackthornGSD on 14 February 2011 - 17:02
He got the black gene from his dad, and his mom is likely bicolor with a black recessive, which would mean Riot would be a bicolor with a black recessive, like his mom.
Or, if you follow Pod's information, he's a black and tan with a black recessive with the bicolor modifiers inherited from his mom. (Something like that...)
(Nona, I wasn't being nasty about his age--I thought you'd had that picture as an avatar for a few months now--I guess I misremembered!)
Or, if you follow Pod's information, he's a black and tan with a black recessive with the bicolor modifiers inherited from his mom. (Something like that...)
(Nona, I wasn't being nasty about his age--I thought you'd had that picture as an avatar for a few months now--I guess I misremembered!)
by Jenni78 on 14 February 2011 - 18:02
My bi bitch changes seasonally. Typically, she has zero markings on her face, has a faint stripe across her chest and just had tan on her legs, but sometimes she gets "eyebrows" and lighter markings around her chest. She produces true bi's, blacks, and sables when bred to a sable.
Here is a pup of hers at about 12 weeks, if I remember right. If she (Avasha vom Eisenherz) isn't a true bi, I don't know what is.
i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG950093.jpg
This is what she looked like as a tiny pup:
i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Puppies%20first%20outing%20June%2029/CSC_0201.jpg
This is my bitch's face this summer: i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Capri/Pripups2-12-11028.jpg
And this is her just yesterday:
i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Capri/Pripups2-12-11027.jpg
Here is a pup of hers at about 12 weeks, if I remember right. If she (Avasha vom Eisenherz) isn't a true bi, I don't know what is.
i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG950093.jpg
This is what she looked like as a tiny pup:
i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Puppies%20first%20outing%20June%2029/CSC_0201.jpg
This is my bitch's face this summer: i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Capri/Pripups2-12-11028.jpg
And this is her just yesterday:
i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Capri/Pripups2-12-11027.jpg
by eichenluft on 14 February 2011 - 19:02
who told you she wasn't a "true" bicolor? hard to mistake the toemarks on her.
molly
molly
by nonacona60 on 14 February 2011 - 20:02
BT,
No problem about the avatar....Actually I just put that pic up since the weekend...I did have a another pic of a puppy that was dark, but definitely not a bicolor..That pup was from a litter born, Oct 17th..That maybe what you were thinking about...He was thick just like this one....
No problem about the avatar....Actually I just put that pic up since the weekend...I did have a another pic of a puppy that was dark, but definitely not a bicolor..That pup was from a litter born, Oct 17th..That maybe what you were thinking about...He was thick just like this one....
by Jenni78 on 14 February 2011 - 21:02
No one said she wasn't; I was just referring to the pup being a true bicolor in reference to the part about what a dog produces giving insight as to what the dog itself is. That pup is 18mos. old now and so dark she only has some bleeding on her legs. Other than that, she is solid black and dark enough that it's been questioned if she is black w/bleeding instead of bicolor, but she is bicolor- no doubt about it. She has a tan vent and you can see from her puppy pics she's no black.
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