German Shepherd Bloodlines - Page 8

Bloodlines is a identification system for animals which is best done through male tracing which gives a nearer result to thoroughness and correctness than if it was done through the female

The ones using arithmetic of fracture influence of the dog from past generations are missing one point. Genetics do not work that way. There is relative dominance of the genes which will throw such arithmetic on it's ass. Also when you are mixing lines you will get goulash indeed. And that is what almost all people do. I do not think that anybody here is using male bloodlines system of breeding besides maybe Gigante - I do not know. I am using it and I do mainly 5th line over Ingo and Ex and I do it for decades and Jiri Novotny is maintaining successfully all 5 lines - bless his heart and he does it for decades and entire - now legendary z Pohranicni straze ( Czech border patrol dogs) was created by him and as far as I know, he is the only one on the world who does still maintain 5 lines for the love of the breed. Thus I ask, what is the practical experience of people disagreeing with such concept? That is a rhetorical question..
I have already gave reason why it works and I have it proven by practice where others are just theorizing from point of lesser or greater knowledge of genetics.
I have no ax to grind, but I will assure you that if you take 'goulash dogs' and breed them for 1-3 generation in male line you will generate dogs which will fit description of the line which you are using. I do not care what other thing about breeding in lines. I love GSDs and I am throwing this out here for people who want to learn this to improve the breed and breed what ever they want.
You want to breed dogs like this sable, super hard, in PP high anger level against attacker, great trackers, dominant thus lesser obedience type one dogs? Then start breeding in 2nd line.
You want sport type high drive in prey, fire plugs stocky but smaller dogs then breed in 3rd. It works like a charm.
Some are saying something that we do not know dogs from past. But the fact is that I see the traits of the dogs I am producing NOW. I do not care about some dog from 1948. What I care about is that if I breed certain line I will get certain characteristics in most, if not all pups in such breeding. That is due to the dominance of the genes in the dog which started the line. It is simple like this->.
You have bucket of genes ( in a founder dog) and some are dominant . If you keep breeding dogs with same bucket of dominant genes and thus line breed on them, then these genes will soon show up in progeny of it. That is totally logical, simple and trivial. If I have "goulash dogs" with many different buckets of genes but I am using only specific buckets( line) - then the buckets which I am using are going over ride the buckets I am not using.
:)
Hans

There are female lines too. You can use it but female lines do not work as well as male line. That is due to the fact that the studs are selected for their known dominance of genes. Even though female too may have such dominant gene, but the fact is that they produce much less pups few tens at most. However most such popular studs who can produce 1000 pups or more. That is one necessary ingredient for creating a line - many dogs.
Also do not forget that every female ( same as every male) has behind them male line.

Ibrahim ~ 'Never heard of sons and daughters being related to the female in any breed or race'

Your culture is very different than in the west...even race horse breeders look to the female tail line. I knew Brahman cattle breeders who based their lines on the female tail line. To me, the bitch is the key to a successful, quality litter...if one's goal, however, is for general marketing of the litter, then by all means, hyp the dog, because most guys believe only use for females of any species is to produce male offspring.
But Ibrahim, if focusing on the males in a pedigree is your bag, then noone is stopping you.

After today I will not say I never heard of any breed that relate offspring to females.

No Joanro, I did not say I only care to follow male lines in a pedigree or I do not care about the female line.

I say on total breed scale male is of more effect, for a single kennel female is of more effect ( or better said is utmost important as she is the basis of a kennel)

@Ibrahim...http://m.keeneland.com/half-brothersister

 

 

@ Ibrahim..from above link: 'Half brother/sister

Horses out of the same dam but by different sires. Horses with the same sire and different dams are not half siblings.'

As to dogs, the male will have more influence on a breed when used exstensively, as Lance of franjo, but the female is the one for strength of litter, as she has the most influence on the pups. Look up epigenetics.

As example, i have two yearling females which are great grandadaughters of my male and female of the mother. I know and own the yearlings' grand mother and greatgrandmother and greatgrandmother of their mother. I bred her to a male which is known for producing pups which take after their dam in temperament, structure and nerves. I could not ask for better dogs out of a litter...they are replicas of their dam, did not lose any of her quality.

Yes I agree to effect of mum on the litter, you are correct there, genetic wise pup gets genes from both parents, mother has additional effect of rearing and imprinting on pups

I will read the article in the link

My point was that the females bred to the male I spoke of had the genetics expressed more than those of the male. If the female has weaknesses needing improvement, the pups are going to be same as that female when bred to the male I spoke of. And he was not weak or lacking himself....just that the genes that are expressed ( desirable or undesirable) in the pups, come from her.
If what you are saying, that both parents are equal in contribution, then the male will not have stronger influence as being claimed, except * perhaps* by numbers if he is used on many many females, when considering the breed as a whole. But when considering *individual* dogs, the female tail line is of utmost importance to many breeders.

I got your point, I got it right